Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Removing Kisan SM-5, going back to factory directional signals

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Tumwater, WA
    Posts
    7

    Removing Kisan SM-5, going back to factory directional signals

    I purchased a '99' R1100RT w/42k miles a few months back and already made up my mind to remove all the modifications and added accessories three previous owners just had to have. I prefer the original function of the BMW so the first to go is the Kisan SM-5 Signal Minder. Opening up the fuse box revealed the absence of the stock flasher unit. Reading all I can on the SM-5 it appears to regain BMW engineered function I simply unplug the Kisan, purchase an OEM flasher unit, plug it in and close the lid. Can anyone that knows more about the SM-5 confirm it's this simple? Thanks.
    '99' R1100RT
    Licorice 'Twist'

  2. #2
    MontanaMark kmellzey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Helena, MT
    Posts
    36
    Hi,

    I also have a 99 R1100RT with the SM-5 Signal Minder. Personally, I love it for the added low-voltage activation of the turn signals as running lights and the flashing of the turn signals when the brake is applied. But to each his own...

    I do have the original BMW flasher unit and simply swapping the original for the Kisan restores the turn signals to the original function. I have done this while troubleshooting the turn signal wiring when I thought the Kisan had gone belly up. Turns out it was just a short in the in-line connectors to the rear brake light circuit that was causing the problem. Once solved, the Kisan went back in, as I like that functionality.

    Again, just swap an original BMW flasher unit for the Kisan to restore original functionality.

    Cheers,
    Mark

  3. #3
    Plug and Play. Kissan out. OEM in.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  4. #4
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    minnetonka mn
    Posts
    723
    FWIW - I'm convinced the Kisan SM5s are extra sensitive to very tiny current leakages in the input logic control lines that each connect to the handlebar and fairing switches. Or it may be current leakage in the switches and connectors themselves. Washing these parts out with water, then rinsing with distilled water, blow dry, finish drying, then spray w WD-40 may get rid of the problem. It may be possible using a DVM to measure the open circuit resistance of each of these lines from the connector. They should be a very high resistance when the corresponding switch is not depressed. The reason I am suspicious of this is I always had trouble with these units when there was high humidity. being around salt air will do a similar thing.

    I think the Kisan unit uses an internal resistor from each input to the 12V power input to create the logic signal. If there is salt or ? in any switch, the input doesn't change state as needed by what is probably the CMOS components of the Kisan unit. Why have they done this? I suspect that the total static current draw of this system is a continuous drain on the motorcycle battery, even when parked. So they want to minimize this drain. Maybe they are cutting it too close? It may be Kisan's attempt to use BMW's logic solutions?

    Any other theories? or solutions? I'm just an MechEngr. We need an EE's analysis.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Tumwater, WA
    Posts
    7

    Factory default reset in progress!

    Thank you all for your answers! Now I'll source an OEM flasher and check this restoration item off my list. Next is the removal of the Kisan headlight modulator and unattractive VectraLight license plate. Those two should be simple enough. All I'll have to do is repair the damage to the wiring where the 'taps' were attached!
    '99' R1100RT
    Licorice 'Twist'

  6. #6
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida & Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,999
    Quote Originally Posted by nrpetersen View Post
    FWIW - I'm convinced the Kisan SM5s are extra sensitive to very tiny current leakages in the input logic control lines that each connect to the handlebar and fairing switches. Or it may be current leakage in the switches and connectors themselves. Washing these parts out with water, then rinsing with distilled water, blow dry, finish drying, then spray w WD-40 may get rid of the problem. It may be possible using a DVM to measure the open circuit resistance of each of these lines from the connector. They should be a very high resistance when the corresponding switch is not depressed. The reason I am suspicious of this is I always had trouble with these units when there was high humidity. being around salt air will do a similar thing.

    I think the Kisan unit uses an internal resistor from each input to the 12V power input to create the logic signal. If there is salt or ? in any switch, the input doesn't change state as needed by what is probably the CMOS components of the Kisan unit. Why have they done this? I suspect that the total static current draw of this system is a continuous drain on the motorcycle battery, even when parked. So they want to minimize this drain. Maybe they are cutting it too close? It may be Kisan's attempt to use BMW's logic solutions?

    Any other theories? or solutions? I'm just an MechEngr. We need an EE's analysis.
    No theory needed, it’s been measured, but there is a solution. The BMW part uses relays which draw no current when the lights are off. The Kisan uses electronics to provide its functions—one of which is hazard flasher relays with the key off. Unfortunately the Kisan triples the key-off current. A stock Oilhead draws only 2.5 mA with the Key off. Add a Kisan and the total draw jumps to 7.5 mA, which is enough to deplete 30% of your battery in a month.

    The solution is to cut the wire that enables key-off flashers: https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...l=1#post999445

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
    No theory needed, itís been measured, but there is a solution. The BMW part uses relays which draw no current when the lights are off. The Kisan uses electronics to provide its functionsóone of which is hazard flasher relays with the key off. Unfortunately the Kisan triples the key-off current. A stock Oilhead draws only 2.5 mA with the Key off. Add a Kisan and the total draw jumps to 7.5 mA, which is enough to deplete 30% of your battery in a month.

    The solution is to cut the wire that enables key-off flashers: https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...l=1#post999445
    Or use a battery maintainer, or ride more often. I had a Kissan on my R1150R and it never, not once, depleted the battery in 15 years and 170,000+ miles.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  8. #8
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida & Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,999
    Merry Christmas Paul, Iím not surprised in the least that you never had a problem with the Kisan. Riding is the antidote for many battery issues.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Southwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
    Merry Christmas Paul, I’m not surprised in the least that you never had a problem with the Kisan. Riding is the antidote for many battery issues.
    Good idea — I think I’ll head out now. It’s almost 40 F and the sun’s out. FWIW, in almost 18 years, my SM5 has never caused me any battery problems.
    2002 R1150R
    2016 BMW F700GS

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Corralitos, CA - Santa Cruz County
    Posts
    122
    Send me your headlight modulator!
    Signature

Similar Threads

  1. Directional won't turn off!!!
    By Motor unit 7 in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-29-2014, 08:06 PM
  2. Hazard and directional signals quit working
    By lsouth3 in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-12-2011, 02:36 AM
  3. 1991 K75s Directional
    By joetk75s in forum Flying Brick K-bikes
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-06-2011, 01:58 AM
  4. right rear directional stalk fix
    By ultracyclist in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-24-2010, 11:20 PM
  5. Help with removing an S-Fairing/turn signals
    By mishen in forum Airheads
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-08-2007, 11:03 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •