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Thread: Pavement paranoia!

  1. #76

    Post Pilgrimage for Clean Air

    Clean Air on a Cruiser with a Single Windscreen.

    Some cruisers with windscreens provide clean air for the rider and even the passenger (see post #70).

    This is accomplished by a combination of windscreen angle, the windscreen proper, and the hardware parts leading and below the windscreen.

    Factors include:

    • A windscreen angle (30 degrees is optimal in many settings).
    • Windscreen size and shape (screen height may need to be adjusted for the riders sitting height).
    • Air capture at the bottom edge of the windscreen.

    In the previous examples, the Indian Chief Vintage and the HD Softail Heritage, optimal air capture may be due to one or multiple factors:

    • Windscreen width and shape along the bottom edge.
    • Headlight nacelle (size, shape, position).
    • Hardware leading/below the windscreen (such as the upper fork segments, driving lights, etc).

    The combination of the above factors can result in neutralization of any trailing negative pressure behind the windscreen.

    Resulting in Clean Air...

  2. #77

    Post Not tonight, deer: Tips to avoid hitting a deer on your motorcycle

    Many Encounters of the Deer Kind result in broken ribs.

    If you ride in deer country, you might want to add chest protection to your kit.

    As inflatable protection alone may not activate prior to the deer hitting the rider, hard shell armor is a consideration.

    A combination of both, such as some of the Helite models with front and back body armor, may be a solution.
    Last edited by wildbears; 02-13-2020 at 02:45 PM.

  3. #78

    Post Deadly Mixture

    Alcohol and Caffeine.

    Drinking these together combines decreased motor skills and heightened emotional lability.

    The rider may become less risk adverse, more prone to anger/road rage, and less able to handle resulting situations.


    NOTE: While being inebriated or over caffeinated each present problems, the rider's safety may be at risk when these are combined.
    Last edited by wildbears; 02-18-2020 at 01:57 PM.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by wildbears View Post
    Alcohol and Caffeine.

    Drinking these together combines decreased motor skills and heightened emotional lability.

    The rider may become less risk adverse, more prone to anger/road rage, and less able to handle resulting situations.
    Caffeine affects people differently. I've been treated for caffeine intoxification twice by the VA. Now that I'm down to 3 24ounce coffees from 5 per day, my riding skills are not diminished in the least. I function just fine on 3 24 ounce coffees a day. While someone else may have one small cup of coffee and get the jitters.

    Two police motor courses passed while on caffeine, if the skills were diminished, I doubt I'd have been able to pass the courses based on your idea of decreased motor skills.

    There are NO absolutes in the world.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  5. #80

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    I doubt I'd have been able to pass the courses based on your idea of decreased motor skills.
    I guess my post needed to be clearer.

    Sorry.

    It is meant to suggest that alcohol decreases motor skills.

    Not that caffeine does this.

    Many studies show caffeine to increase performance skills, both physical and mental.

    Caffeine is metabolized by the body's cytochrome p450 enzyme system.

    Genetically, individuals may be high, normal, low, or null metabolizers.

    This is reflected in an individual's response to caffeine dosage.

    Null metabolizers may be hypersensitive to caffeine while high metabolizers can handle higher dosing.

    Additionally, as with many stimulant drugs, tolerance occurs with repeated exposure.

    Part of the reason is caffeine suppresses the release of endogenous "wake-up chemicals".

    This explains the progressive need for more cups each day to reach the desired state of alertness.

    OTOH, null metabolizers may experience a progressive accumulation of caffeine with just a single cup each morning resulting in a hypomanic state in susceptible individuals.

    Hopefully you WERE NOT consuming both alcohol and caffeine during testing.



    Here's my original post again:

    Alcohol and Caffeine.

    Drinking these together combines decreased motor skills and heightened emotional lability.

    The rider may become less risk adverse, more prone to anger/road rage, and less able to handle resulting situations.

    Thanks for your input.

    Good to see that some are following this thread.

    And thanks for your service as an officer of the law.

    Last edited by wildbears; 02-13-2020 at 04:08 PM.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by wildbears View Post
    I guess my post needed to be clearer.

    Sorry.

    It is meant to suggest that alcohol decreases motor skills.

    Not that caffeine does this.

    Many studies show caffeine to increase performance skills.

    Caffeine is metabolized by the body's cytochrome p450 enzyme system.

    Genetically, individuals may be high, normal, low, or null metabolizers.

    This is reflected in an individual's response to caffeine dosage.

    Null metabolizers may be hypersensitive to caffeine while high metabolizers can handle higher dosing.

    Additionally, as with many stimulant drugs, tolerance occurs with repeated exposure.

    Part of the reason is caffeine suppresses the release of endogenous "wake-up chemicals".

    This explains the progressive need for more cups each day to reach the desired state of alertness.

    OTOH, null metabolizers may experience a progressive accumulation of caffeine with just a single cup each morning resulting in a hypomanic state in susceptible individuals.

    Hopefully you WERE NOT consuming both alcohol and caffeine during testing.



    Here's my original post again:

    Alcohol and Caffeine.

    Drinking these together combines decreased motor skills and heightened emotional lability.

    The rider may become less risk adverse, more prone to anger/road rage, and less able to handle resulting situations.

    Thanks for your input.

    Good to see that some are following this thread.

    I don't drink alcohol at all. Fluid intake is limited to coffee and water. I don't do soft drinks/soda at all either. Thanks for the clarification sir.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  7. #82

    Thumbs up Pilgrimage for Clean Air

    In the prior posts, I was to get "clean air" by riding on cruisers with fork mounted fairings, but not Gold Wings. Now, I'm to get "clean air" by standing on the pegs.
    So why the difference between a Gold Wing with buffeting and an Indian Chief Vintage cruiser with clean air?

    Gold Wing: The air flow / wind management design creates a negative pressure zone behind its windscreen and front fairing.

    Indian Chief Vintage: The air flow / wind management design prevents significant negative pressure behind its windscreen and headlight nacelle.

    What does standing on the pegs demonstrate?

    This raises the rider's helmet into a zone free of the turbulence that trails behind the leading structures of the motorcycle.

    This turbulence, experienced as wind noise and buffeting, is caused by the trailing negative pressure present on many if not most motorcycles these days, with or without windscreens.

  8. #83

    Post Pilgrimage for Clean Air

    As for the role helmets play with wind noise, per Dr. John Kennedy (Trinity College Dublin), et. al., wind noise is accentuated by the "Coke Bottle" effect (my term) of air passing under the helmet across open spaces between the rider's head and the helmet. And of course, if the air is turbulent even more noise is created.

    This is especially true for full face helmets with the visor all the way down.

    For example, the noise with a late model Gold Wing mostly disappears when ridden bare headed as opposed to a full face helmet with the visor down.

    Many Gold Wing riders rode sans helmets back in the day.

    And the Indian Chief Vintage (post #70) is even quieter when wearing a full face helmet if the visor is all the way up.

    NOTE: Both examples represent reduction of the "Coke Bottle Effect".
    Last edited by wildbears; 02-18-2020 at 01:59 PM.

  9. #84
    Dress for the crash, not the noise level.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  10. #85
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Dress for the crash, not the noise level.
    In the words of Dug the Dog.............."SQUIRREL"
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  11. #86
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbears View Post
    As for the role helmets play with wind noise, per Dr. John Kennedy (Trinity College Dublin), et. al., wind noise is accentuated by the "Coke Bottle" effect (my term) of air passing under the helmet across open spaces between the rider's head and the helmet. And of course, if the air is turbulent even more noise is created.

    This is especially true for full face helmets with the visor all the way down.

    For example, the noise with a late model Gold Wing mostly disappears when ridden bare headed as opposed to a full face helmet with the visor down.

    Many Gold Wing riders rode sans helmets back in the day.

    And the Indian Chief Vintage (post #70) is even quieter when wearing a full face helmet if the visor is all the way up.

    PS!

    The above is a part of a continuing discussion of factors related to wind noise.

    Subsequent posts suggest that the above could be misinterpreted by someone as a recommendation to not wear a helmet in order to decrease wind noise.

    Please understand the example of Gold Wing riders not wearing helmets in the past is only used to collaborate Kennedy's research.

    Of course it is not a recommendation to ride without a helmet....

    Many thanks for the followup posts.
    Have you been in contact with Dr. Kennedy? And, do you have a document saying he agrees with your statements?
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
    1) My expectations are never low enough & 2) Incompetence is infinite ........David Brooks

  12. #87

    Post Pilgrimage for Clean Air

    The "Coke Bottle Effect" is due to the open space, mainly behind the chin bar of a full face helment.

    Reducing or eliminating this space (the mouth of the Coke Bottle) results in a decrease in wind noise.

    Dr. Kennedy (cited in earlier posts):

    ....small movements in riding position can change the volume of sound by more than 10 decibels, and [U]that wearing a scarf around the neck can seal off the cavity around (the) aerodynamically-tricky chin bar.
    https://www.insidescience.org/news/l...-motorcyclists
    Last edited by wildbears; 02-25-2020 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Clarification.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by wildbears View Post
    If you have additional concerns that weren't addressed, please send me a PM.
    Well, I do. No pm requiared. Any nonsense that purports to justify why people don't wear helmets is balderdash. I have read it all: neck strain; peripheral vision; whiplash; and now noisiness. All of these silly excuses have next to no merit compared to the known ability of helmets to reduce fatalities and serious head injuries. NOTE: I said reduce not eliminate. But when peer pressure, pirate costumes, pseudo science and other goofiness comes between a rider and proven safety improvements from a helmet I call bovine excrement.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  14. #89

    Question

    Many Gold Wing riders of yore likely chose not to wear a helmet on the older models because of the increased wind noise and buffeting.

    Here's a pic of Rollie Free's gear and riding position he used to establish a speed record.

    An example of aerodynamics trumping safety.

    NOTE: He is wearing a helmet!

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by wildbears; 02-25-2020 at 12:59 PM.

  15. #90

    Post Pilgrimage for Clean Air

    Windscreens create less turbulence if the trailing negative pressure is reduced.

    On a typical motorcycle windscreen, high pressure develops on the leading surface at the same time low pressure develops behind the screen.

    When the pressure difference is great enough, the high pressure air pops into the low pressure region and produces turbulence/buffeting.

    The pressure difference is proportion to wind speed.

    Some bikes, for example the 2nd edition of the K1200RS, don't develop significant turbulence until around 50 mph. It progressively increases as wind speed increases.

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