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Thread: New F bike models

  1. #16
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
    On other fora it is said that the service manual only exists online for dealer service staff and not available otherwise and will remain so. One can always hope I suppose but until it happens I will avoid these bikes. I am a firm believer in doing one's own maintenance and repairs wherever possible. Information of this sort should not be withheld from those laying out their hard earned bucks to buy the bike.
    The other foum or fora are just plain wrong. It is not true for any current model. I can't prove that now, but since I do have my one year later maintenance CD for our G310 bikes, I am confident time will prove me right. A person needs to be very careful in believing what is read on the internet. THIS POST INCLUDED. But a year from now or so one of us will feel foolish. I am pretty sure it won't be me.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
    FWIW I won't consider any new F bike until a service manual is made available to owners.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    It will be one to two years before manuals are out. Manuals for the F850GSA are still not out yet.

  3. #18
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    I know it will not be you ,Paul!

  4. #19
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Iím pretty sure the warranty for BMW motorcycles is 3 years/36 thousand miles. Iím not sure if any other manufacturer is offering a comparable warranty program.
    That said, knowing that they (BMW) are on the ďhookĒ for this warranty period, producing a sub-standard product really isnít in BMWís best interest.
    OM
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    The other foum or fora are just plain wrong. It is not true for any current model. I can't prove that now, but since I do have my one year later maintenance CD for our G310 bikes, I am confident time will prove me right. A person needs to be very careful in believing what is read on the internet. THIS POST INCLUDED. But a year from now or so one of us will feel foolish. I am pretty sure it won't be me.
    I am merely reflecting the angst being expressed by owners elsewhere who are finding maintenance frustrating without a service manual. I didn't say what I myself believed. I expressed my conviction not to buy a bike for which no service manual is available. I will have no reason to feel foolish since the manual will either be available and the new F-bikes will be a viable option or it won't and they won't be on my shopping list. You should not engage in personal denigration for no reason.

    The new F-bike owners are frustrated because even a simple oil change is proving difficult. Who would have thought that, once you removed the oil plug and oil drained out, there was yet another oil plug directly above of a different size that has to be removed as well by inserting a tool through the first drain hole? Similarly those who have come up to the mileage where a valve clearance check is recommended have no instructions to follow.

  6. #21
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
    I am merely reflecting the angst being expressed by owners elsewhere who are finding maintenance frustrating without a service manual. I didn't say what I myself believed. I expressed my conviction not to buy a bike for which no service manual is available. I will have no reason to feel foolish since the manual will either be available and the new F-bikes will be a viable option or it won't and they won't be on my shopping list. You should not engage in personal denigration for no reason.

    The new F-bike owners are frustrated because even a simple oil change is proving difficult. Who would have thought that, once you removed the oil plug and oil drained out, there was yet another oil plug directly above of a different size that has to be removed as well by inserting a tool through the first drain hole? Similarly those who have come up to the mileage where a valve clearance check is recommended have no instructions to follow.
    I thought I saw here on the forum that the K1600ís had that duel oil plug deal
    OM
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I thought I saw here on the forum that the K1600ís had that duel oil plug deal
    OM
    Could well be but there is no reasonable expectation that an F-bike owner would know that and even if you did what tool would the F-bike require to remove the second plug (it isn't visible)?

  8. #23
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
    Could well be but there is no reasonable expectation that an F-bike owner would know that and even if you did what tool would the F-bike require to remove the second plug (it isn't visible)?
    Iíd have to look at the owners manual. IIRC, the Ďsplaination was pretty good on my F800GS. As more and more info was available, I picked the manuals up. I have the BMW maintenance disc.....my least favorite. I have the Haynes manual which is pretty good....think it took a couple of years to become available. I have the Globeriders DVD which is my favorite.
    If I put all three together, along with the internet, Iím good to go.
    OM
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Iíd have to look at the owners manual. IIRC, the Ďsplaination was pretty good on my F800GS. As more and more info was available, I picked the manuals up. I have the BMW maintenance disc.....my least favorite. I have the Haynes manual which is pretty good....think it took a couple of years to become available. I have the Globeriders DVD which is my favorite.
    If I put all three together, along with the internet, Iím good to go.
    OM
    Neither the F800GS nor the F850GS owner's manuals give you anything but how to check oil level, top up the oil and what oil to use.

    Like you I have the BMW disc and the Haynes manual. I rely on the former much more than the latter for maintaining our two bikes and I take it along on a USB stick when on trips. I don't have the Globerider DVD but don't feel a need either.

    No doubt there will be helpful people who will post videos on YouTube in the fullness of time but I find that many of those are let's say less than ideal.

  10. #25
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    I thought I saw here on the forum that the K1600ís had that duel oil plug deal
    OM
    Yep the K1600 has that odd double sump setup.
    I hate hearing BMW is using it on other bikes.
    Lee
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    Past BMW Bikes: 2016 R1200RS, 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by vark View Post
    BMW didn’t source these engines from Lorcim because it’s better than their own designs or those they sourced from Rotax in Austria. They didn’t study the Lorcim design and conclude it would be more durable or reliable, or had a better power/weight ratio (Lorcim’s engines are notoriously heavy). And they didn’t even source the engine from China because it’s cheaper so they could pass along the savings to their customers.

    The only reason there is a chinese Lorcim engine in these bikes is because BMW was pressured by chinese trade officials to increase chinese content or risk having limits placed on their access to chinese markets. It’s a standard strong arm tactic chinese trade officials are increasingly employing against many manufacturers across many industries. Some manufacturers have refused to do this, others like BMW have caved to the pressure.

    Apparently BMW concluded access to the markets in communist china was more important than lost sales in other markets from sourcing a chinese engine. Only time will tell.

    For those who are apologists for the chinese Lorcim engines now used by BMW in their F-series bikes (F750GS, F850GS, F900s)... Imagine the shrieks of ridicule and derision that would be all over this forum if instead of BMW it was Harley Davidson that was sourcing chinese Lorcim engines for their bikes!

    What if BMW decides to outsource all BMW motorcycle engines, swapping them for chinese designed and built engines? No more german-built horizontally opposed engines, or in-lines. No more austrian parallel twins. Would you feel the same sense of pride of ownership? Would you feel you were buying a German motorcycle?

    I wouldn't. But if you’re fine with that, have at it. My hope is enough buyers will shun these BMW F-Series bikes with chinese Lorcim engines to make BMW reconsider their decision.

    Well thank God it isn't the engine! Just that old "sense of pride" thing. Passed that hurdle back in 50's and 60's by riding all that "cheap Jap crap".
    Last edited by Motodan; 12-13-2019 at 02:39 AM.
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  12. #27
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    BTW the name of the firm is Loncin.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RadioFlyer View Post
    BTW the name of the firm is Loncin.
    Thanks for that correction. Yes, Loncin is the correct name for the manufacturer of the chinese engine used in the BMW F750GS, F850GS, and now it seems the F900 models as well.

  14. #29
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Yep the K1600 has that odd double sump setup.
    I hate hearing BMW is using it on other bikes.
    Bikes, cars, heavy equipment, electronics, boilers (HVAC).........not really owner friendly as far as service goes- anymore. As I’m still involved in a great many “systems”, I can see the commonality between what (has been designed in) is making devices run.
    In a recent remodel of a fire station, some “committee” allowed the design and approval of a totally unnecessary 4-pipe HVAC retrofit- and probably spent close to 200K to do it......the bulk of this retrofit was using Trane equipment which is top of the line. I give this example as a view to a “system” that looked wonderful on paper but-

    Overly complicated
    Invasive to install.
    Installation inefficient and difficult.
    Installer could not make the room units communicate with the thermostats.
    Trane tech advised “wrong” thermostats for application....control valves could have been ruined.
    An “appointment” has to be made through the Trane sales department to talk to Trane tech services.
    Finally, after months, thermostats can now be used but FCU’s (fan coil units) need to be rewired.

    These “advancements” are exceeding experience to work on them and keep the device operating.

    On of the benefits of this forum is that there are some real talented mechanics that are willing to exchange information and ideas to not only get through some of this new technology, but keep a 25+ year old bike running- even if the parts are “hand” made.

    Celebrate the mechanically inclined, help those that are not.

    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose". MI5
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  15. #30
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    I found a thread on the K1600 forum where a member sells a modified drain plug.
    No idea if it will work on the F900.
    https://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw...thread-20.html
    Lee
    2022 R1250RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2016 R1200RS, 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

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