lawrencecarlson
Member
Does anyone know when the new F900R and F900XR models will be hitting the dealers? Also, were they exhibited at the New York International motoshow?
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New F bike models
- Thread starter lawrencecarlson
- Start date
A big maybe , summertime ? Canada web site has the R but not the XR now. They still list the F800GT too!
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Are you considering one of the new models as a replacement for your F700GS?
lawrencecarlson
Member
No, I really like my GS, which I bought after an extended test ride (about 900 miles on a rented F700GS on a Northern California tour). It does everything I need it to do really well. If I didn’t already have it though, I would probably be considering the F900XR.
Gotcha. I was curious because I am looking for an F650/700GS and was wondering what you might have seen in the F900XR that would cause you to swap.
The new F twins are certainly interesting. But I am still waiting for confirmation as to whether the F900s are using a Chinese Lorcim engine like the F750/850GS models.
lawrencecarlson
Member
From Rider magazine:
”BMW surprised us with two new mid-range models, the 2020 F 900 R and the F 900 XR, both based around a slightly enlarged version of the parallel twin released last year that powers the F 850 GS.“
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
FWIW I won't consider any new F bike until a service manual is made available to owners.
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
The F850GS uses a chinese designed/built Lorcim engine. “Based on” isn’t exactly definitive, but it does suggest BMW is again sourcing Lorcim engines for these new F900 bikes.
lawrencecarlson
Member
Yep. From Motorcyclist:
“As noted in the preview of the new F 900 R, the F 900 XR benefits from a newly developed 895cc parallel-twin engine with an eight-valve, DOHC cylinder head. The mill was first introduced in the 2018 F 850 GS...”
Is there something to infer regarding BMW's engine manufacturing source being Chinese? What might that be?
pglaves
#13338
What I infer is that we have a global economy and most major manufactureres source components from across the globe. Sometimes they get crap. If they do their quality control program sucks. If the design is good and ythe QC is good, desirable stuff can come from many countries.
I am old enough to remember when everything that came from Japan was labeled crap even though it wasn't. Today we seek out those Japanese cameras, electronics, and cars. Today it is India, China, Bangladesh, Taiwan, and others that folks scorn, eventually to their own dismay I predict.
I have always seen bike (vehicle) first and a year later manuals- on first year introductions
OM
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
I have always seen bike (vehicle) first and a year later manuals- on first year introductions
OM
On other fora it is said that the service manual only exists online for dealer service staff and not available otherwise and will remain so. One can always hope I suppose but until it happens I will avoid these bikes. I am a firm believer in doing one's own maintenance and repairs wherever possible. Information of this sort should not be withheld from those laying out their hard earned bucks to buy the bike.
No need to infer anything. I will state it very plainly: Like a lot of people, I don’t want to buy a BMW motorcycle with a chinese designed and built engine from Lorcim.
BMW didn’t source these engines from Lorcim because it’s better than their own designs or those they sourced from Rotax in Austria. They didn’t study the Lorcim design and conclude it would be more durable or reliable, or had a better power/weight ratio (Lorcim’s engines are notoriously heavy). And they didn’t even source the engine from China because it’s cheaper so they could pass along the savings to their customers.
The only reason there is a chinese Lorcim engine in these bikes is because BMW was pressured by chinese trade officials to increase chinese content or risk having limits placed on their access to chinese markets. It’s a standard strong arm tactic chinese trade officials are increasingly employing against many manufacturers across many industries. Some manufacturers have refused to do this, others like BMW have caved to the pressure.
Apparently BMW concluded access to the markets in communist china was more important than lost sales in other markets from sourcing a chinese engine. Only time will tell.
For those who are apologists for the chinese Lorcim engines now used by BMW in their F-series bikes (F750GS, F850GS, F900s)... Imagine the shrieks of ridicule and derision that would be all over this forum if instead of BMW it was Harley Davidson that was sourcing chinese Lorcim engines for their bikes!
What if BMW decides to outsource all BMW motorcycle engines, swapping them for chinese designed and built engines? No more german-built horizontally opposed engines, or in-lines. No more austrian parallel twins. Would you feel the same sense of pride of ownership? Would you feel you were buying a German motorcycle?
I wouldn't. But if you’re fine with that, have at it. My hope is enough buyers will shun these BMW F-Series bikes with chinese Lorcim engines to make BMW reconsider their decision.
pglaves
#13338
The other foum or fora are just plain wrong. It is not true for any current model. I can't prove that now, but since I do have my one year later maintenance CD for our G310 bikes, I am confident time will prove me right. A person needs to be very careful in believing what is read on the internet. THIS POST INCLUDED. But a year from now or so one of us will feel foolish. I am pretty sure it won't be me.
It will be one to two years before manuals are out. Manuals for the F850GSA are still not out yet.
I’m pretty sure the warranty for BMW motorcycles is 3 years/36 thousand miles. I’m not sure if any other manufacturer is offering a comparable warranty program.
That said, knowing that they (BMW) are on the “hook” for this warranty period, producing a sub-standard product really isn’t in BMW’s best interest.
OM
That said, knowing that they (BMW) are on the “hook” for this warranty period, producing a sub-standard product really isn’t in BMW’s best interest.
OM
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
I am merely reflecting the angst being expressed by owners elsewhere who are finding maintenance frustrating without a service manual. I didn't say what I myself believed. I expressed my conviction not to buy a bike for which no service manual is available. I will have no reason to feel foolish since the manual will either be available and the new F-bikes will be a viable option or it won't and they won't be on my shopping list. You should not engage in personal denigration for no reason.
The new F-bike owners are frustrated because even a simple oil change is proving difficult. Who would have thought that, once you removed the oil plug and oil drained out, there was yet another oil plug directly above of a different size that has to be removed as well by inserting a tool through the first drain hole? Similarly those who have come up to the mileage where a valve clearance check is recommended have no instructions to follow.
