heated grips and seat stopped working - good battery and voltage

2009 K1300GT

They both stopped the last day (and coldest right!?) of a 9 day trip after riding for 90 minutes at 5k rpm. I was using the heated grips at #2 position and seat at #1. I was using a heated vest as connected directly to the battery (not the accessory plug). They both worked fine the previous 7-8 days.

Per the owners manual, the system turns the grips and seat warmers off if your battery runs low on voltage to allow you to restart the bike. It mentions they will return if the voltage is high enough and cycle the ignition switch (I've done this 5 times). The battery is a new Lith-ion with 13.21 volts resting overnight, 14.1 running.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!
Brian

brian_pnw said:

2009 K1300GT

They both stopped the last day (and coldest right!?) of a 9 day trip after riding for 90 minutes at 5k rpm. I was using the heated grips at #2 position and seat at #1. I was using a heated vest as connected directly to the battery (not the accessory plug). They both worked fine the previous 7-8 days.

Per the owners manual, the system turns the grips and seat warmers off if your battery runs low on voltage to allow you to restart the bike. It mentions they will return if the voltage is high enough and cycle the ignition switch (I've done this 5 times). The battery is a new Lith-ion with 13.21 volts resting overnight, 14.1 running.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!
Brian

Click to expand...

What is the capacity of the battery in amp hours.

As long as the engine is running and charging at the proper voltage why would the battery matter?

Brian-pnw said:

I was using the heated grips at #2 position and seat at #1. I was using a heated vest

Click to expand...

On our 2011 K1300Ss we were able to run heated jacket liners, grips or gloves and heated insoles without any problems.

PoorUB said:

As long as the engine is running and charging at the proper voltage why would the battery matter?

Click to expand...

Because even at nominal charging voltage the charging system might not be producing sufficient current (amps). If so the load is using the battery reserve capacity.

My understanding is if the charging system will not produce the enough amps to carry the load the charging voltage will drop. I have never seen the voltage stay at spec if the charging system can not carry the load. The very reason why we see volt meters instead of amp meters in vehicles today.

I suspect the OP has some other issue.

update

To me, a silly engineer, I go with the fact that the grips and seat worked fine for 8 days of straight use. Not 100% use, but they worked in the AM rides for several hours and longer than the day they stopped working. This would tell me the charging system and 6 month old Lith-ion battery (that shows and holds a full charge at rest and 14V output of the alt at 2k rpm) are fine.

The manual say's both the heated seat and grips will not work if the battery voltage is too low. This condition resets (CANBUS) with the ignition on/off after the volts are high enough. starting the bike and voltage has never been the issue.

I hooked up the GS911wifi last night to see what it would tell me. The right grip heated seat and grip switches both work (toggles on/off on the screen, both level 1 &2), but will not stay on after pressing the button. I unplugged the seat but still no go. My next test will be to unplug the grips and see if the seat heat works. That would at least point me to the grips alone.

I'm not sure if a seat heating element failure or a grip wire short will cause them both not to work. ANYONE KNOW THIS?


ZFE-High : -
Controller Type : Vehicle Electronics
Controller Name : ZFE-High
Controller : 6300
Part No. : 07722245
Hardware Index : 06
Coding Index : 09
Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 2004-04-15 MCV : 0.6.0 FSV : 2.9.2 OSV : 3.3.0 Manufacturer : Loewe / Lear Factory I-Level : K024-09-02-500 Actual I-Level : K024-09-02-500 Configuration :

Fault Codes : 1
|
41740 : Heated Grips, short-circuit
Currently present : YES
Symptom : Signal or value over threshold Engine warning light (MIL) : NO Frequency count : 3
Logistic(Healing) count : 40
Fault Code History : Unknown

UPDATE: I checked the grip wire I repaired in March with the Ohm meter, all is still good there (No short).

GS911wifi - both seat and grip heater switched on the right controller are cycling, but not staying on. The LED dash shows they are both on.

I was hoping someone would know if the issue might be another part of the system. I'm new to these bikes with CANBUS systems.

What is the "OP"?

brian_pnw said:

What is the "OP"?

Click to expand...

“OP” is just a shorthand way of referring to the “original poster”, i.e. you.

brian_pnw said:

UPDATE: I checked the grip wire I repaired in March with the Ohm meter, all is still good there (No short)

Click to expand...

brian_pnw said:

Fault Codes : 1
|
41740 : Heated Grips, short-circuit
Currently present : YES
Symptom : Signal or value over threshold Engine warning light (MIL) : NO Frequency count : 3
Logistic(Healing) count : 40
Fault Code History : Unknown

Click to expand...

If Canbus shuts something down due to a fault, or detects a fault (bad bulbs, etc) it will often throw an indicator on the dash. Are you seeing anything like that?

You mention fixing a short on the grip circuit and have a grip short-circuit showing in your ZFE scan. What was the nature and location of the short, and were the codes cleared after that repair? Or is the fault shown above just old residual information?

Best,
DeVern

GTRider said:

If Canbus shuts something down due to a fault, or detects a fault (bad bulbs, etc) it will often throw an indicator on the dash. Are you seeing anything like that?

You mention fixing a short on the grip circuit and have a grip short-circuit showing in your ZFE scan. What was the nature and location of the short, and were the codes cleared after that repair? Or is the fault shown above just old residual information?

Best,
DeVern

Click to expand...

Nothing on the dash. It Even shows the grips and seat are “on” on the screen.

I cut the grip heater wire back in March when I replaced the grips. I was able to solder the wire together. It had no fault at that time as I knew I did it and repaired it without turning the bike on until I was ready to test the repair. this week I pulled the grip back to check the continuity of the wire and it is good. I guess I’ll try the other.

The fault code is from the condition it is in now. I reset the faults and this keeps coming back up, so I know it’s still an issue. before I start pulling my bike apart trying to find the faulty wire or connector, I’d like to know if this is usually a wire issue (Short) or a system controller issue from others experience.

What is bothering me is the seat doesn’t work now. Weird design to have both linked for a short fault in grip and/or seat heaters.

Thanks for your input!
A work in progress....

As King of the Wild Ass Guessers I want to say "fuse" but I believe your bike doesn't have fuses. Circuit breaker (or something similar) tripped?

brian_pnw said:

Nothing on the dash. It Even shows the grips and seat are “on” on the screen.

I cut the grip heater wire back in March when I replaced the grips. I was able to solder the wire together. It had no fault at that time as I knew I did it and repaired it without turning the bike on until I was ready to test the repair. this week I pulled the grip back to check the continuity of the wire and it is good. I guess I’ll try the other.

The fault code is from the condition it is in now. I reset the faults and this keeps coming back up, so I know it’s still an issue. before I start pulling my bike apart trying to find the faulty wire or connector, I’d like to know if this is usually a wire issue (Short) or a system controller issue from others experience.

What is bothering me is the seat doesn’t work now. Weird design to have both linked for a short fault in grip and/or seat heaters.

Thanks for your input!
A work in progress....

Click to expand...

I believe you've hit the end of non-hands-on diagnostics. Your ZFE is telling you it discovered a short circuit in the heated handgrip circuit and has shut down the entire circuit, the safest option where a short is involved. In my experience when CanBus discovers a non-short fault it will generally allow other devices on that circuit to continue to function and in the case of safety-critical items like lights or brakes will display a dash warning. I'd suggest you clear the codes in your ZFE then trace the wiring on the heated grips back into the bodywork until you find the connector, and simply disconnect that connector. Start with the RH grip. Once disconnected, power on the bike and try the heated grips and seat to see if any of the other devices are still functioning, and again read the codes and clear any short-circuit fault. If the issue is not clearly identified in the right grip then leave it disconnected and also disconnect the left grip then test the heated seat function and read any codes. If after disconnecting both grips you are still getting a short-circuit fault in the handgrip circuit then it is entirely possible the short is deeper in the harness and more difficult to find. But, I'm betting you'll find the issue by disconnecting the grips, particularly the RH one.

On another note, you didn't specify which type of lithium-ion battery you have but it is most likely LiFePO4. You may find some interesting reading here regarding continuous charging voltage application to the LiFePO4 batteries. Please do update us in the future as to the service life you experience with the li-ion unit.

Good luck,

DeVern

GTRider said:

I believe you've hit the end of non-hands-on diagnostics. Your ZFE is telling you it discovered a short circuit in the heated handgrip circuit and has shut down the entire circuit, the safest option where a short is involved. In my experience when CanBus discovers a non-short fault it will generally allow other devices on that circuit to continue to function and in the case of safety-critical items like lights or brakes will display a dash warning. I'd suggest you clear the codes in your ZFE then trace the wiring on the heated grips back into the bodywork until you find the connector, and simply disconnect that connector. Start with the RH grip. Once disconnected, power on the bike and try the heated grips and seat to see if any of the other devices are still functioning, and again read the codes and clear any short-circuit fault. If the issue is not clearly identified in the right grip then leave it disconnected and also disconnect the left grip then test the heated seat function and read any codes. If after disconnecting both grips you are still getting a short-circuit fault in the handgrip circuit then it is entirely possible the short is deeper in the harness and more difficult to find. But, I'm betting you'll find the issue by disconnecting the grips, particularly the RH one.

On another note, you didn't specify which type of lithium-ion battery you have but it is most likely LiFePO4. You may find some interesting reading here regarding continuous charging voltage application to the LiFePO4 batteries. Please do update us in the future as to the service life you experience with the li-ion unit.

Good luck,

DeVern

Click to expand...

Thank you DeVern! I'll be diving into that right grip assembly first. Sounds like you know it has a historical issue of failure.


As for the battery, this is what Battery Tender calls out. I use their Battery Tender® Plus 12V, 1.25A Battery Charger. It doesn't charge over 14 volts.

"Can I use a standard Lead Acid charger/maintainer for my Battery Tender® lithium battery?"

As long as the battery charger does not have a desulfation mode and the peak voltage does not exceed 14.8V during the charge cycle it can be used to charge a Battery Tender® Lithium Battery. Of course the best way to charge and maintain a Battery Tender® Lithium Battery is to use a Battery Tender® Lithium Battery Charger

My Battery is a BikeMaster Lithium Ion Battery DLFP-51913 - 375 amps. I put it in March of 2019, never an issue, never put it on the trickle charger until this month to make sure I have max volts/amps for testing. I will remove it as my bike doesn't seem to have any power "leaks".

From what I've found many BMWMOA members use this set up.

For what its worth, I've had a Shorai LiFePo battery in my used-once-a-week big twin sport bike since 2015 and its performance has been excellent. I plug my Battery Tender Jr. into it about once a month just for the heck of it and the charge indicator always shows "green".

YMMV.

Sorry for the thread derail.

UPDATE! The "Windows 98" fix

After getting my GS911 wifi scanner hooked up, I was able to turn on the heated grips and seat via the ZFE module test function. The GS911 also showed the switches in the hand grip are working (at least sending a signal to the ZFE and dash indicators). it still didn't make sense because I knew the signal was getting to the module, it just wasn't turning them all on. I unplugged all the heated elements and tested one at a time, but still no go.

So, what do you do with a 10 year old PC? unplug it and let it sit for a while before rebooting. In this case I disconnected the battery for 2 minutes, then tried it again. No go. Disconnected it again, left it for an hour, retest and WHAM! it all works now!

I may have a short in one of the heating wires, but I won't know until I start riding again (Pacific NW here and currently soggy and icy). If it does it again, I suspect it's the seat heating element as I had a custom seat built using the old pan and heating element in June 2019.

Thank to all who chimed in, great forum!

PS: Big thanks to those dudes who invented the GS911 wifi. The best BMW tool in my box!

brian_pnw said:

After getting my GS911 wifi scanner hooked up, I was able to turn on the heated grips and seat via the ZFE module test function. The GS911 also showed the switches in the hand grip are working (at least sending a signal to the ZFE and dash indicators). it still didn't make sense because I knew the signal was getting to the module, it just wasn't turning them all on. I unplugged all the heated elements and tested one at a time, but still no go.

So, what do you do with a 10 year old PC? unplug it and let it sit for a while before rebooting. In this case I disconnected the battery for 2 minutes, then tried it again. No go. Disconnected it again, left it for an hour, retest and WHAM! it all works now!

I may have a short in one of the heating wires, but I won't know until I start riding again (Pacific NW here and currently soggy and icy). If it does it again, I suspect it's the seat heating element as I had a custom seat built using the old pan and heating element in June 2019.

Thank to all who chimed in, great forum!

PS: Big thanks to those dudes who invented the GS911 wifi. The best BMW tool in my box!

Click to expand...

Great!
Always a plus when a thread has a finish
OM

worked for 2 hours...

Back to the beginning. I'm starting to think the right grip button controller is the issue as everything works when I use the Hex911 wifi tool to turn them on.

Updated fix 2.0

I resolved that the issue must be an old version of the switch that had been recalled. I decided to remove the switch and replace it. While doing so I noticed the multi-wire connector (#1 in the picture) looked as if it was not seated all the way into the socket. It doesn't have a clip like almost every other socket wire connection on this bike. I found that the "clam shell" mating part has a small flat ledge that should act as the retainer when assembled. All I know is I pushed the plug all the way in and started the bike and the grips now work.

NOTE: I did install handle bar risers on this bike. This causes some needed wire and break line adjustments for slack. I removed this wire from the "L" clip on the right side handle bar. I'm guessing at some point I pulled on the wire and caused it to separate just enough to cause the problem.

I put a small dab of gorilla glue on the joint. GG has a nice cross linking (binding) component with Acetal (Delrin) and Nylon (polyester) plastics. I dis-assembled the switch housing to confirm what version of the switch I had. It is the latest version, so the previous owner must have had the recall done prior to Jan 2019.

What I learned about these wonderful (and sometimes horrible) bikes are the computer systems can cause false diagnostic roads to go down.

• Heated grip-seat module - I was always able to turn the heated grips and seats on (getting heat) with my HEX GS-911 wifi tool on the page that runs diagnostics for turn signals and electronics. (different than the switch test)
• Switch Test module - The HEX GS-911 tool also showed the controller switches were turning on and off when pressed, but the signal wasn't causing the heat to turn on.
• Onboard computer - The bikes LCD dash showed the grip heater indicator icons on even though they had no heat.
• Related faults - This fault/wire issue also turns off the heated seats, so if you are looking for that issue, check the controller switch.

I hope this helps if you're going through the same issue. Saved me a few hundred bucks in parts, but more important in our current times, some of my sanity. (Covid-19)