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Thread: heated grips and seat stopped working - good battery and voltage

  1. #1
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    heated grips and seat stopped working - good battery and voltage

    2009 K1300GT

    They both stopped the last day (and coldest right!?) of a 9 day trip after riding for 90 minutes at 5k rpm. I was using the heated grips at #2 position and seat at #1. I was using a heated vest as connected directly to the battery (not the accessory plug). They both worked fine the previous 7-8 days.

    Per the owners manual, the system turns the grips and seat warmers off if your battery runs low on voltage to allow you to restart the bike. It mentions they will return if the voltage is high enough and cycle the ignition switch (I've done this 5 times). The battery is a new Lith-ion with 13.21 volts resting overnight, 14.1 running.

    Does anyone have any experience with this?

    Thanks!
    Brian

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by brian_pnw View Post
    2009 K1300GT

    They both stopped the last day (and coldest right!?) of a 9 day trip after riding for 90 minutes at 5k rpm. I was using the heated grips at #2 position and seat at #1. I was using a heated vest as connected directly to the battery (not the accessory plug). They both worked fine the previous 7-8 days.

    Per the owners manual, the system turns the grips and seat warmers off if your battery runs low on voltage to allow you to restart the bike. It mentions they will return if the voltage is high enough and cycle the ignition switch (I've done this 5 times). The battery is a new Lith-ion with 13.21 volts resting overnight, 14.1 running.

    Does anyone have any experience with this?

    Thanks!
    Brian
    What is the capacity of the battery in amp hours.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  3. #3
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    As long as the engine is running and charging at the proper voltage why would the battery matter?
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  4. #4
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian-pnw
    I was using the heated grips at #2 position and seat at #1. I was using a heated vest
    On our 2011 K1300Ss we were able to run heated jacket liners, grips or gloves and heated insoles without any problems.
    Last edited by Lee; 11-30-2019 at 04:58 PM.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    As long as the engine is running and charging at the proper voltage why would the battery matter?
    Because even at nominal charging voltage the charging system might not be producing sufficient current (amps). If so the load is using the battery reserve capacity.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

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    My understanding is if the charging system will not produce the enough amps to carry the load the charging voltage will drop. I have never seen the voltage stay at spec if the charging system can not carry the load. The very reason why we see volt meters instead of amp meters in vehicles today.

    I suspect the OP has some other issue.
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

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    update

    To me, a silly engineer, I go with the fact that the grips and seat worked fine for 8 days of straight use. Not 100% use, but they worked in the AM rides for several hours and longer than the day they stopped working. This would tell me the charging system and 6 month old Lith-ion battery (that shows and holds a full charge at rest and 14V output of the alt at 2k rpm) are fine.

    The manual say's both the heated seat and grips will not work if the battery voltage is too low. This condition resets (CANBUS) with the ignition on/off after the volts are high enough. starting the bike and voltage has never been the issue.

    I hooked up the GS911wifi last night to see what it would tell me. The right grip heated seat and grip switches both work (toggles on/off on the screen, both level 1 &2), but will not stay on after pressing the button. I unplugged the seat but still no go. My next test will be to unplug the grips and see if the seat heat works. That would at least point me to the grips alone.

    I'm not sure if a seat heating element failure or a grip wire short will cause them both not to work. ANYONE KNOW THIS?


    ZFE-High : -
    Controller Type : Vehicle Electronics
    Controller Name : ZFE-High
    Controller : 6300
    Part No. : 07722245
    Hardware Index : 06
    Coding Index : 09
    Manufacture Date (YY/MM/DD) : 2004-04-15 MCV : 0.6.0 FSV : 2.9.2 OSV : 3.3.0 Manufacturer : Loewe / Lear Factory I-Level : K024-09-02-500 Actual I-Level : K024-09-02-500 Configuration :

    Fault Codes : 1
    |
    41740 : Heated Grips, short-circuit
    Currently present : YES
    Symptom : Signal or value over threshold Engine warning light (MIL) : NO Frequency count : 3
    Logistic(Healing) count : 40
    Fault Code History : Unknown

  8. #8
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    UPDATE: I checked the grip wire I repaired in March with the Ohm meter, all is still good there (No short).

    GS911wifi - both seat and grip heater switched on the right controller are cycling, but not staying on. The LED dash shows they are both on.

    I was hoping someone would know if the issue might be another part of the system. I'm new to these bikes with CANBUS systems.

  9. #9
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    What is the "OP"?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brian_pnw View Post
    What is the "OP"?
    “OP” is just a shorthand way of referring to the “original poster”, i.e. you.

  11. #11
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian_pnw View Post
    UPDATE: I checked the grip wire I repaired in March with the Ohm meter, all is still good there (No short)
    Quote Originally Posted by brian_pnw View Post
    Fault Codes : 1
    |
    41740 : Heated Grips, short-circuit
    Currently present : YES
    Symptom : Signal or value over threshold Engine warning light (MIL) : NO Frequency count : 3
    Logistic(Healing) count : 40
    Fault Code History : Unknown
    If Canbus shuts something down due to a fault, or detects a fault (bad bulbs, etc) it will often throw an indicator on the dash. Are you seeing anything like that?

    You mention fixing a short on the grip circuit and have a grip short-circuit showing in your ZFE scan. What was the nature and location of the short, and were the codes cleared after that repair? Or is the fault shown above just old residual information?

    Best,
    DeVern
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider View Post
    If Canbus shuts something down due to a fault, or detects a fault (bad bulbs, etc) it will often throw an indicator on the dash. Are you seeing anything like that?

    You mention fixing a short on the grip circuit and have a grip short-circuit showing in your ZFE scan. What was the nature and location of the short, and were the codes cleared after that repair? Or is the fault shown above just old residual information?

    Best,
    DeVern
    Nothing on the dash. It Even shows the grips and seat are “on” on the screen.

    I cut the grip heater wire back in March when I replaced the grips. I was able to solder the wire together. It had no fault at that time as I knew I did it and repaired it without turning the bike on until I was ready to test the repair. this week I pulled the grip back to check the continuity of the wire and it is good. I guess I’ll try the other.

    The fault code is from the condition it is in now. I reset the faults and this keeps coming back up, so I know it’s still an issue. before I start pulling my bike apart trying to find the faulty wire or connector, I’d like to know if this is usually a wire issue (Short) or a system controller issue from others experience.

    What is bothering me is the seat doesn’t work now. Weird design to have both linked for a short fault in grip and/or seat heaters.

    Thanks for your input!
    A work in progress....

  13. #13
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    As King of the Wild Ass Guessers I want to say "fuse" but I believe your bike doesn't have fuses. Circuit breaker (or something similar) tripped?

  14. #14
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian_pnw View Post
    Nothing on the dash. It Even shows the grips and seat are “on” on the screen.

    I cut the grip heater wire back in March when I replaced the grips. I was able to solder the wire together. It had no fault at that time as I knew I did it and repaired it without turning the bike on until I was ready to test the repair. this week I pulled the grip back to check the continuity of the wire and it is good. I guess I’ll try the other.

    The fault code is from the condition it is in now. I reset the faults and this keeps coming back up, so I know it’s still an issue. before I start pulling my bike apart trying to find the faulty wire or connector, I’d like to know if this is usually a wire issue (Short) or a system controller issue from others experience.

    What is bothering me is the seat doesn’t work now. Weird design to have both linked for a short fault in grip and/or seat heaters.

    Thanks for your input!
    A work in progress....
    I believe you've hit the end of non-hands-on diagnostics. Your ZFE is telling you it discovered a short circuit in the heated handgrip circuit and has shut down the entire circuit, the safest option where a short is involved. In my experience when CanBus discovers a non-short fault it will generally allow other devices on that circuit to continue to function and in the case of safety-critical items like lights or brakes will display a dash warning. I'd suggest you clear the codes in your ZFE then trace the wiring on the heated grips back into the bodywork until you find the connector, and simply disconnect that connector. Start with the RH grip. Once disconnected, power on the bike and try the heated grips and seat to see if any of the other devices are still functioning, and again read the codes and clear any short-circuit fault. If the issue is not clearly identified in the right grip then leave it disconnected and also disconnect the left grip then test the heated seat function and read any codes. If after disconnecting both grips you are still getting a short-circuit fault in the handgrip circuit then it is entirely possible the short is deeper in the harness and more difficult to find. But, I'm betting you'll find the issue by disconnecting the grips, particularly the RH one.

    On another note, you didn't specify which type of lithium-ion battery you have but it is most likely LiFePO4. You may find some interesting reading here regarding continuous charging voltage application to the LiFePO4 batteries. Please do update us in the future as to the service life you experience with the li-ion unit.

    Good luck,

    DeVern
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider View Post
    I believe you've hit the end of non-hands-on diagnostics. Your ZFE is telling you it discovered a short circuit in the heated handgrip circuit and has shut down the entire circuit, the safest option where a short is involved. In my experience when CanBus discovers a non-short fault it will generally allow other devices on that circuit to continue to function and in the case of safety-critical items like lights or brakes will display a dash warning. I'd suggest you clear the codes in your ZFE then trace the wiring on the heated grips back into the bodywork until you find the connector, and simply disconnect that connector. Start with the RH grip. Once disconnected, power on the bike and try the heated grips and seat to see if any of the other devices are still functioning, and again read the codes and clear any short-circuit fault. If the issue is not clearly identified in the right grip then leave it disconnected and also disconnect the left grip then test the heated seat function and read any codes. If after disconnecting both grips you are still getting a short-circuit fault in the handgrip circuit then it is entirely possible the short is deeper in the harness and more difficult to find. But, I'm betting you'll find the issue by disconnecting the grips, particularly the RH one.

    On another note, you didn't specify which type of lithium-ion battery you have but it is most likely LiFePO4. You may find some interesting reading here regarding continuous charging voltage application to the LiFePO4 batteries. Please do update us in the future as to the service life you experience with the li-ion unit.

    Good luck,

    DeVern

    Thank you DeVern! I'll be diving into that right grip assembly first. Sounds like you know it has a historical issue of failure.


    As for the battery, this is what Battery Tender calls out. I use their Battery Tender® Plus 12V, 1.25A Battery Charger. It doesn't charge over 14 volts.

    "Can I use a standard Lead Acid charger/maintainer for my Battery Tender® lithium battery?"

    As long as the battery charger does not have a desulfation mode and the peak voltage does not exceed 14.8V during the charge cycle it can be used to charge a Battery Tender® Lithium Battery. Of course the best way to charge and maintain a Battery Tender® Lithium Battery is to use a Battery Tender® Lithium Battery Charger

    My Battery is a BikeMaster Lithium Ion Battery DLFP-51913 - 375 amps. I put it in March of 2019, never an issue, never put it on the trickle charger until this month to make sure I have max volts/amps for testing. I will remove it as my bike doesn't seem to have any power "leaks".

    From what I've found many BMWMOA members use this set up.

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