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  1. #1
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    Increase horsepower!

    Ya gotta love the folks down in marketing. By almost accident I've been made aware of a sure fire way to increase horsepower. Other day needed to order a small RAM item, decided to get free shipping by ordering the "kit" for cleaning/lubing chain maintenance. Little did I realize the inherit aspects of using these products - INCREASE HORSEPOWER! It's right there on the packaging....

    Now only need to figure out if it goes in the fuel tank or crankcase to achieve that "increase"? LOL!
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  2. #2
    Technically, I suppose, reducing drive chain friction could increase effective horsepower to the rear wheel. Good luck measuring that.
    Last edited by stevienh; 11-09-2019 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Spelling

  3. #3
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevienh View Post
    Technically, I suppose, reducing drive chain friction could increase effective horsepower to the rear wheel. Good luck measuring that.
    Thatís the way I see it. Iím working with chains regularly. Some so stiff that it is a tribute to the drive mechanism that the power is transmitted.

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  4. #4
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    Gee, and I always thought horsepower was created by the engine...didn't realize a well maintained chain would allow those pistons and their feeders/ex-spellers to up the number produced. Marketing.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Gee, and I always thought horsepower was created by the engine...didn't realize a well maintained chain would allow those pistons and their feeders/ex-spellers to up the number produced. Marketing.
    Everybody can scoff, but reality is that a motorcycle's horsepower is very often presented in two ways: engine or crankshaft horsepower and rear wheel horsepower. When measured by a wheel dyno what is measured is horsepower at the wheel.

    A search would disclose a number of presentations criticizing, for example, shaft drive because the shaft and final drive setup adds drag which reduces rear wheel horsepower. And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.

    I have no way of knowing if the claims made by that chain lubricant are accurate when compared to other chain lubricants but it is an absolute fact that a stiff chain with high friction between the links will reduce horsepower measured at the rear wheel.

    As far as how is it measured: Every single wheel dyno run ever done was intended to measure horsepower at the rear wheel. So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  6. #6
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
    As you allude, one would absolutely detect a difference between a dry chain and a properly lubricated chain.

    As a young and stupid rider I never lubed the chain on my 250 Honda, my excuse now being I was not exposed to any experienced riders who would have given me a slap upside the head. Anyway, I had to bring the bike to the shop for some reason or other and the mechanic there gave my red and rusty chain a thorough cleaning and lubrication. Shazam! Instant horsepower increase! It felt like I'd added 50cc to the engine.

    Now, my buddies kid me about how fastidious I am with the chain on my sport bikes but it was a lesson I never forgot. Oh, and the chain lasts WAY longer.

  7. #7
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Everybody can scoff, but reality is that a motorcycle's horsepower is very often presented in two ways: engine or crankshaft horsepower and rear wheel horsepower. When measured by a wheel dyno what is measured is horsepower at the wheel.

    A search would disclose a number of presentations criticizing, for example, shaft drive because the shaft and final drive setup adds drag which reduces rear wheel horsepower. And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.

    I have no way of knowing if the claims made by that chain lubricant are accurate when compared to other chain lubricants but it is an absolute fact that a stiff chain with high friction between the links will reduce horsepower measured at the rear wheel.

    As far as how is it measured: Every single wheel dyno run ever done was intended to measure horsepower at the rear wheel. So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
    I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.
    I really liked the belt drive on my former bike, F800GT. If you survey owners of that bike I think you will find the majority found its belt drive to be a significant factor in their purchase of the F800GT. I'm not an engineer but just one look at the insides of the u-joints, drive shaft and crown bearing implementation in my '16 RT made it clear to me that design must be a hog for chewing up HP to the rear wheel compared to belt. The belt in the F800GT was the picture of efficiency w/ the front and rear sprockets in the same plane as the wheel, turning in the same direction as the crankshaft rotation. So simple and elegant it has to be significantly better at transmitting more engine HP to the rear wheel. My fantasy dreamcycle employs a belt drive w/ a 50K mile recommended change interval.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post

    Welcome to the forum!

    Gary
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  10. #10
    Sometimes Marketing departments get it wrong...sometimes theyíre too honest:




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  11. #11
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    Chain

    Back in the Ice Ages when I, was young Riding Triumphís every month or so the chain would come off and left in a bath of Diesel Fuel. From turning the rear wheel on stand you always noticed it spun easier than when removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Ya gotta love the folks down in marketing. By almost accident I've been made aware of a sure fire way to increase horsepower. Other day needed to order a small RAM item, decided to get free shipping by ordering the "kit" for cleaning/lubing chain maintenance. Little did I realize the inherit aspects of using these products - INCREASE HORSEPOWER! It's right there on the packaging....

    Now only need to figure out if it goes in the fuel tank or crankcase to achieve that "increase"? LOL!

  12. #12
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05biggray View Post
    Back in the Ice Ages when I, was young Riding Triumphís every month or so the chain would come off and left in a bath of Diesel Fuel. From turning the rear wheel on stand you always noticed it spun easier than when removed.
    Did it increase the engine's HP production?
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Did it increase the engine's HP production?
    Of course not but it easily could have increased rear wheel horsepower as measured by a dyno. We don't really need to revisit this whole thread do we?
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  14. #14
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Of course not but it easily could have increased rear wheel horsepower as measured by a dyno. We don't really need to revisit this whole thread do we?
    Why not Paul? You're retired now. What else ya got going on???

    Friedle
    Ride fast safely

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    Why not Paul? You're retired now. What else ya got going on???

    Friedle
    I couldn't find any loose or floppy chain GIFs but I'm still looking.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

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