Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 39

Thread: Increase horsepower!

  1. #1
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,364

    Increase horsepower!

    Ya gotta love the folks down in marketing. By almost accident I've been made aware of a sure fire way to increase horsepower. Other day needed to order a small RAM item, decided to get free shipping by ordering the "kit" for cleaning/lubing chain maintenance. Little did I realize the inherit aspects of using these products - INCREASE HORSEPOWER! It's right there on the packaging....

    Now only need to figure out if it goes in the fuel tank or crankcase to achieve that "increase"? LOL!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    F850GSA

    MOA #46783

  2. #2
    Technically, I suppose, reducing drive chain friction could increase effective horsepower to the rear wheel. Good luck measuring that.
    Last edited by stevienh; 11-09-2019 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Spelling

  3. #3
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,MA
    Posts
    14,351
    Quote Originally Posted by stevienh View Post
    Technically, I suppose, reducing drive chain friction could increase effective horsepower to the rear wheel. Good luck measuring that.
    Thatís the way I see it. Iím working with chains regularly. Some so stiff that it is a tribute to the drive mechanism that the power is transmitted.

    Welcome to the forum!

    Gary
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  4. #4
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,364
    Gee, and I always thought horsepower was created by the engine...didn't realize a well maintained chain would allow those pistons and their feeders/ex-spellers to up the number produced. Marketing.
    F850GSA

    MOA #46783

  5. #5
    Sometimes Marketing departments get it wrong...sometimes theyíre too honest:




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Gee, and I always thought horsepower was created by the engine...didn't realize a well maintained chain would allow those pistons and their feeders/ex-spellers to up the number produced. Marketing.
    Everybody can scoff, but reality is that a motorcycle's horsepower is very often presented in two ways: engine or crankshaft horsepower and rear wheel horsepower. When measured by a wheel dyno what is measured is horsepower at the wheel.

    A search would disclose a number of presentations criticizing, for example, shaft drive because the shaft and final drive setup adds drag which reduces rear wheel horsepower. And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.

    I have no way of knowing if the claims made by that chain lubricant are accurate when compared to other chain lubricants but it is an absolute fact that a stiff chain with high friction between the links will reduce horsepower measured at the rear wheel.

    As far as how is it measured: Every single wheel dyno run ever done was intended to measure horsepower at the rear wheel. So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  7. #7
    Left Coast Rider
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,314
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
    As you allude, one would absolutely detect a difference between a dry chain and a properly lubricated chain.

    As a young and stupid rider I never lubed the chain on my 250 Honda, my excuse now being I was not exposed to any experienced riders who would have given me a slap upside the head. Anyway, I had to bring the bike to the shop for some reason or other and the mechanic there gave my red and rusty chain a thorough cleaning and lubrication. Shazam! Instant horsepower increase! It felt like I'd added 50cc to the engine.

    Now, my buddies kid me about how fastidious I am with the chain on my sport bikes but it was a lesson I never forgot. Oh, and the chain lasts WAY longer.

  8. #8
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,364
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Everybody can scoff, but reality is that a motorcycle's horsepower is very often presented in two ways: engine or crankshaft horsepower and rear wheel horsepower. When measured by a wheel dyno what is measured is horsepower at the wheel.

    A search would disclose a number of presentations criticizing, for example, shaft drive because the shaft and final drive setup adds drag which reduces rear wheel horsepower. And you would also find comparisons between the horsepower "lost" by chain drive vs belt drive, which was once a hot Harley Davidson topic.

    I have no way of knowing if the claims made by that chain lubricant are accurate when compared to other chain lubricants but it is an absolute fact that a stiff chain with high friction between the links will reduce horsepower measured at the rear wheel.

    As far as how is it measured: Every single wheel dyno run ever done was intended to measure horsepower at the rear wheel. So measure with a dry chain, then measure with a lubricated chain. Just like changing any other variable, you might detect a difference.
    I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
    F850GSA

    MOA #46783

  9. #9
    Left Coast Rider
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
    Oh, you're one of THOSE guys, eh?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    I do not believe an engine's raw HP can be increased by oiling the chain or taking 60 pounds of weight from the bike or making the bike more aerodynamic or - whatever. If an engine produces 100 HP, then it produces 100 HP. Somewhere, beyond the engine may show less than 100 HP, but the engine HP itself will not "increase horsepower" because of those downstream changes. That's how I read the add, it did not say "increase rear wheel horsepower". Marketing.
    Nobody said the engine horse power would increase; just that horsepower measured at the rear wheel would increase. Maybe the claim on the can seems a bit farfetched but I don't read into it something it doesn't say.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  11. #11
    Well, youíd definitely notice the difference if you didnít lube your shaft drive. But really, chain drive? Itís so yesterday.

  12. #12
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,364
    Quote Originally Posted by lupinblue View Post
    Well, youíd definitely notice the difference if you didnít lube your shaft drive. But really, chain drive? Itís so yesterday.
    Yes, we all remember when BMW's commercials proclaimed shaft drive was the only real alternative. Did they lie or just forget....Marketing.
    F850GSA

    MOA #46783

  13. #13
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mansfield,MA
    Posts
    14,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Yes, we all remember when BMW's commercials proclaimed shaft drive was the only real alternative. Did they lie or just forget....Marketing.
    I would feel better about the shaft-drive if they could find the other half of the swing-arm
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Yes, we all remember when BMW's commercials proclaimed shaft drive was the only real alternative. Did they lie or just forget....Marketing.
    I get your point, but in all fairness, it's rarely that simple.

    As a marketing and sales executive for the last couple of decades, it's often about objectives that over time don't pan out. For example, and I am totally making this up as I have no visibility to BMW's decisions, but I could envision BMW product managers deciding going forward all motorcycles will be shaft drive for several reasons such as ease of one drive train across all models and the far less maintenance would be widely acceptable for their customers.

    As they moved forward to implement and marketing fulfills their objectives by promoting the value of drive shaft over chain, their customers may have pushed back demanding chain drive for certain models.

    You have to listen to your customers and complaints may have been so strong that they had to change their plans and offer chain drive. In which case the previous feature positioning - i.e. drive shaft over chain drive - changed and marketing had to address those changes. You obviously can't keep promoting shaft over chain when chain is an offering.

    I've seen it a lot over the years.

  15. #15
    On a Boxer motor with the crankshaft aligned fore-aft a shaft drive is a natural. To use a chain or belt would require a 90 degree ring and pinion at the transmission. It seemed so logical in 1923.

    When BMW began with singles, twins, and fours with the transverse (crosswise) crankshaft a chain or belt drive made sense because a shaft would require a 90 degree gearset at the transmission and a second at the rear wheel. It seemed so logical in 1996.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 11-10-2019 at 05:49 PM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

Similar Threads

  1. A horsepower question.
    By oldnslow in forum Motorrad
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-22-2012, 07:05 PM
  2. My 3-Horsepower Diet
    By Lawrence_D in forum Campfire
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2012, 10:15 PM
  3. 02 r1150rt horsepower
    By PRODUCT in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 02-23-2010, 06:31 PM
  4. 2002 1150RT Horsepower?
    By stoon48 in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-14-2004, 03:54 PM
  5. Horsepower Increase
    By mikea in forum Airheads
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-18-2004, 04:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •