E15 is OK now

There's been a lot written about how E15 will slag our bikes, and how any left in the hose will dissolve delicate parts, etc. etc. Well, it appears that BMW has solved two problems with one stroke: E15 and sales growth. Look what it says in the owners' manual for my new R1250 GSA:



The E5 and E10 in circles are British and mean what you think. How BMW has persuaded themselves that "E5" with 15% ethanol is an actual thing I have no idea but the bottom line is they're saying that what we on this side of the pond call "E15" is OK to use.

So everybody go out and buy a new bike!

wbrownell9 said:

The E5 and E10 in circles are British and mean what you think. How BMW has persuaded themselves that "E5" with 15% ethanol is an actual thing I have no idea but the bottom line is they're saying that what we on this side of the pond call "E15" is OK to use.

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Sometimes the BMW Riders Manual has some strange conversions or translations.
Has anyone in the US ever seen 90 AKI gas?

Lee said:

Sometimes the BMW Riders Manual has some strange conversions or translations.
Has anyone in the US ever seen 90 AKI gas?

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Around here we get 87, 89, and 91 - sometimes 93 or 94 as well. I always used 89 in my wethead, which is what the owner's manual asked for. At least at sea level. Whatever the middle button is. Out west the AKIs are lower because of the altitude, like 85 instead of 87. Whatever, I'm going to continue to use 89/middle button. E10 most likely, E0 if convenient, but at least now I don't need to worry if all I can find is E15.

I never worried about using 87/regular either. Some of the more remote places only sell one grade. When the choice is ride or push, I use 87.

E 15 is not OK for BMW's or any other motorcycles until the EPA gives approval.

swall said:

E 15 is not OK for BMW's or any other motorcycles until the EPA gives approval.

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E15 is not OK with me even if the EPA gets bribed to say it is. I suppose I would put a little in a tank to get to the next station with real gasoline but I wouldn't like it. Ethanol in fuel is stupid for both scientific and mechanical reasons.

The introduction of E15 is a very good reason to plan to fill early when travelling. Then if all you can get is the contaminated stuff you can ride on, or dilute it with the good fuel already in your tank.

p.s. My 2014 Ford Focus already says it is OK for E0 to E15. My K75 manual says to avoid gasoline adulterated with alcohol.

I like my corn on the cob, not in my vehicles.

swall said:

E 15 is not OK for BMW's or any other motorcycles until the EPA gives approval.

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I think that ship sailed a few weeks ago.............. Something about US Farmers being made great.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?96227-E15-Here-it-comes

swall said:

E 15 is not OK for BMW's or any other motorcycles until the EPA gives approval.

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You interest me strangely. What is your basis for stating that what's in the owner's manual is not accurate?

I'm not experienced in the matter for ground-based vehicles, but I presume DOT (and very probably the EPA) have requirements about what goes into the manuals.

I'm inclined to believe the OEM that:

1. They've testing or analysis that says E15 is acceptable for the 1250 bikes and that they lack such for the previous bikes.

2. They will back up that position with warranty coverage for 1250 bikes using E15.

Personally I'm not a fan of alcohol in street cars and bikes for the several reasons the previous posters enumerate. At the same time I've used E10 in bikes that were approved for it with no adverse effects.

Ride long and prosper!

Plenty of ethanol threads around the forum. I spend $11.00/gal for non-ethanol racing fuel for my small engines. The ability of the ethanol to absorb water and create the “white pasty” corrosion is my main problem.

For your consideration-

A friend of mine mentioned that he had noticed “black” mold and believed it was actually coming from the “fermentation” from the ethanol. Having enough time to digest his theory, I believe he is correct. Check around the fill-flap, especially on white cars and see what you think.
I ran across a good example recently-

OM

Omega Man said:

Plenty of ethanol threads around the forum. I spend $11.00/gal for non-ethanol racing fuel for my small engines. The ability of the ethanol to absorb water and create the “white pasty” corrosion is my main problem.

For your consideration-

A friend of mine mentioned that he had noticed “black” mold and believed it was actually coming from the “fermentation” from the ethanol. Having enough time to digest his theory, I believe he is correct. Check around the fill-flap, especially on white cars and see what you think.
I ran across a good example recently-

OM

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Lots of places that would initiate a hazmat team.

PGlaves said:

Lots of places that would initiate a hazmat team.

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I'm confused, we're suppose to use E10 or E15, because its "Better". But it's less efficient than "Pure" gas, providing fewer miles per gallon? So it takes more to do less? And if it's so great, why are aircraft banned from using it?

Yes, there are high performance engines, used in racing, etc. that use alcohol based fuels and put out a lot of HP. These engines are usually rebuilt after every race, get really bad mpg and have been know to "hand grenade".

r184 said:

Yes, there are high performance engines, used in racing, etc. that use alcohol based fuels and put out a lot of HP.

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You're referring to methanol. Totally different animal than ethanol. But that's a total thread derail.

swall said:

E 15 is not OK for BMW's or any other motorcycles until the EPA gives approval.

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EPA (and the farm lobby) only decide what is in the gas offered for sale, not where it can be used. Approval to use the available gas comes from the engine manufacturers - and BMW has said that the R1250's can use E15 once it becomes available, as it surely will.

Those who have the option to use E10 or E0 are free to do so, but there are places where there's not another gas station for 50 miles or more. And you don't know what gas it has, if it'll close before you get there, or even if it's still in business. So you fill up when you can with what you can get.

The BMW manual is describing the fuel that will work in the engine. EPA rules on what fuel is lawful to use in the engine.

Too bad engines won’t run on the paper the Extra Paper Association generates
OM

swall said:

The BMW manual is describing the fuel that will work in the engine. EPA rules on what fuel is lawful to use in the engine.

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Lawful is a pretty strong word, it implies some form of enforcement agency is associated with that law. In the case of EPA regs, they may take effect after some complete failure at the local or state level (i.e., the Flint Water supply debacle).

This past summer, the EPA revised their rules to allow storage of E15 fuel in E10 tanks. Some fear this will lead to higher ethanol concentrations, but the ethanol industry hopes it will aid in the acceptance of E15 by the retailers (i.e., less equipment cost).

Having disrupted the agricultural commodities markets with their Tariff campaign, the current administration, is using this revised regulation as a price support to offset the Tariff impacts. In blunt terms, the same choice would been made without Tariffs. The US Ag industry wants the market and several mid-western states are dependent on the farm income. It's the same situation with Coal producers demanding relaxed environmental standards to prevent power plant conversion to NG. KY, WV and parts of other states are dependent on the coal income and want to skew the market.

To me this is actually quite hilarious. Prior to the last election, the AMA was all excited about the ethanol issue. Their candidate was going to end all this..... Three years later, the AMA is silent and their candidate is pushing E15. Of course, Washington will do what's needed to preserve the Ag industry, we can't change that. However, I do feel it's important to identify the hypocrisy and bias of the AMA.

wbrownell9 said:

the R1250's can use E15 once it becomes available, as it surely will.

.

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I didn't pay attention to when it first showed up but I would guess it's been available for at least a year.

First saw it in tiny print on a four grade pump in ND couple weeks back. Had to stop and read each grade sticker. The last on the right said no ethanol. First on Left said E15. Two in the middle, forgot. Some states it's illegal to use pure in anything except classic, motor boats and lawn/ slash commercial equipment. Arm of the law working for da people, common welfare through better bureaucracy.

Is there an actual discussion/debate coming up in the near future? So da people can have some idea how this creates NO climate change? Or global warming? Inquiring minds want to know. Enviro-virtue signaling linking to Religio/shamanism. How far will this progress? Goals keep changing. Like Lucy and Charlie Brown. Here's the ball, now you see it, now you don't. Pay up. Don't forget to pat yerself on yer back.

AFAIK the AMA is the only motorcycle association having ever said anything about E15. I get AMA emails informing what's going on. In general, motorcyclists are not involved in this political football beyond criticizing each other for politicizing it??? In general, everyone except motorcyclists are politically organized.

8ninety8 said:

Some states it's illegal to use pure in anything except classic, motor boats and lawn/ slash commercial equipment. .

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Never heard that one.

I don't like how this company labels the E15 pump. The 88 is E15.