F700 vis F750

What improvements does the 750 have over the 700? Not counting the engine size.

EUGENE said:

What improvements does the 750 have over the 700? Not counting the engine size.

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It’s porkier.

EUGENE said:

What improvements does the 750 have over the 700? Not counting the engine size.

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1. approx. 5 more horsepower
2. loads more tech (i.e., addition of Wonder Wheel, Enduro mode, cruise control, TFT display...and all that it brings.)

just to name a few...and of course, it's porkier.

I dont have experience with the F700 to make a direct comparison. But hey, its the internet so why should that stop me from commenting!

I came from pretty far down-market, Honda NC700x manual, to the F750. It was a revelation. I really feel like a better rider on this bike. There is just so much more control in every facet - acceleration, braking, handling. This bike is just so much more refined. And if what I read about the re-design from F700 to F750 is at all accurate I would have to think the riding experience is significantly different as well.

I will add that my experience with F750 is all on road. I could not say how it stacks up when compared to off-road. Riding both the F750 and F850, I just felt more comfortable on the 750. Clearly the difference between the 19" front and the 21". I'm 6' with a 33" inseam so the 850 did not feel too big,, it was really the riding experience that liked better on the 750

The power is fine for me although I do just leave it in dynamic 99% of the time. If the F750 has 5hp more than the F700 it should feel pretty similar as far as that goes.

The TFT screen is great. The location of the Nav mount is stupid. The interface with phone/TFT/helmet is problematic but not awful. I find the seat comfortable. The ergos are good for all day riding for me.


...and it is porkier than the NC750x too.



ackme

Ackme, does your 750 have dynamic ESA OR not?

EUGENE said:

Ackme, does your 750 have dynamic ESA OR not?

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Yes. Should have mentioned that. It was a pretty loaded model off the floor - the premium packages, comfort seat and center stand. So it has all of the electronic technowhizz-bangery. A better rider than I might find all of that intrusive at times but i suspect that is what makes it feel so great to me.

Yes.... it's porkier..... with a higher center of gravity (top heavy). They moved the gas tank from under the seat.

FWIW, the Motorrad engineers claim the re-designed chassis with tank back up top has improved the center of gravity and overall handling. Seems counter-intuitive but I cant imagine BMW making that change and the claim without good reason.

ackme said:

FWIW, the Motorrad engineers claim the re-designed chassis with tank back up top has improved the center of gravity and overall handling. Seems counter-intuitive but I cant imagine BMW making that change and the claim without good reason.

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Can you provide a link to that claim by the engineers? I’d like to see that discussion.

I was told by a knowledgeable bmw salesperson that the tank was moved forward to improve handling (by concentrating fuel weight between the front and rear wheels, rather than over the rear wheel), but that as a consequence the cg was higher.

For far too many of us the solution to a high center of gravity rests not in the hands of engineers, but rather in the hands of Jenny Craig.

vark said:

Can you provide a link to that claim by the engineers? I’d like to see that discussion.

I was told by a knowledgeable bmw salesperson that the tank was moved forward to improve handling (by concentrating fuel weight between the front and rear wheels, rather than over the rear wheel), but that as a consequence the cg was higher.

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I think this is the press release from Nov.2017. I guess you if you parse the language they say the CoG is "improved" not "lower" so the F700/800 might be actually lower but in the view of BMW the F750/850 has a better result.

"New steel bridge frame in monocoque construction, optimised
suspension geometry and new fuel tank position.
The bridge frame of the new GS models in the F series is made of deepdrawn, welded components. It integrates the 2-cylinder in-line engine as a cosupporting element and offers benefits in terms of torsional rigidity and
robustness. The fuel tank has been placed in the classic position between the
seat bench and the steering head, for optimised packaging and an improved
centre of gravity."

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/attachment/T0275427EN/397328

ackme said:

I think this is the press release from Nov.2017. I guess you if you parse the language they say the CoG is "improved" not "lower" so the F700/800 might be actually lower but in the view of BMW the F750/850 has a better result.

"New steel bridge frame in monocoque construction, optimised
suspension geometry and new fuel tank position.
The bridge frame of the new GS models in the F series is made of deepdrawn, welded components. It integrates the 2-cylinder in-line engine as a cosupporting element and offers benefits in terms of torsional rigidity and
robustness. The fuel tank has been placed in the classic position between the
seat bench and the steering head, for optimised packaging and an improved
centre of gravity."

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/attachment/T0275427EN/397328

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Thanks.

CoG is measured in combination fore/aft, laterally, and vertically. It’s possible to “improve” it without actually lowering it.

That description in the press release above is consistent with what was described to me at the dealership, i.e. the tank was moved forward to improve the overall balance of the bike to benefit handling.

I suspect BMW would have claimed they had lowered the CoG if in fact they had done so. That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with what they did and in fact I don’t doubt their claim that CoG is improved overall. I just remain skeptical that it is lower than on the F700.

akbeemer said:

For far too many of us the solution to a high center of gravity rests not in the hands of engineers, but rather in the hands of Jenny Craig.

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vark said:

I suspect BMW would have claimed they had lowered the CoG if in fact they had done so. That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with what they did and in fact I don’t doubt their claim that CoG is improved overall. I just remain skeptical that it is lower than on the F700.

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I think both of you are 100% correct. This guy's opinion is that the higher CoG on the F750 is an improvment -

"A big difference between the 700 was locating the slightly bigger 15-litre tank back up front. This raises the mass of the bike, but as mentioned in the 700 review, too low a CoG can make a bike hard to turn easily. and on the dirt, including loose hairpins, the 750 didn’t exhibit the resistance I felt in the 700."

"https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2019/11/20/bmw-f750gs-in-morocco-%e2%80%a2-1200-km-review/

That makes sense.

Another point I recall mentioned at the dealer was the F700 with tank under seat is very nicely balanced when ridden as a bare bike. But loaded up with panniers and top case or two-up it tends to be slightly rear-biased in weight distribution.

So moving the tank forward on the 750 may be a slight improvement for those who ride heavily laden. I wonder how many of us would be able to notice the difference, though?

Did not have the pleasure of riding a 700.... but this 850 is top heavy... and I know that I have the GSA, but even with a nearly empty tank this sucker is top heavy...

wachuko said:

Did not have the pleasure of riding a 700.... but this 850 is top heavy... and I know that I have the GSA, but even with a nearly empty tank this sucker is top heavy...

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That’s an interesting datapoint, thanks.

Given how many various seat and suspension height permutations are available in these models, it does seem a bit of a stretch for BMW to claim to have achieved “improved center of gravity” across the board. The extra height and fuel capacity of the GSA models, for instance, would certainly create a very different cog calculation.

wachuko said:

Did not have the pleasure of riding a 700.... but this 850 is top heavy... and I know that I have the GSA, but even with a nearly empty tank this sucker is top heavy...

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I took an F750 out for about an hour demo ride. It felt substantially more top heavy and less agile than my 700. In fact, it felt very similar to my R1150R, which I guess should not be surprising since they weigh about the same (my 1150 with Akrapovic can is actually a little lighter.) That’s not to say that the 750 isn’t a nice bike, but you have to wonder if it was a good idea to make the new “middleweight” as heavy as an open class machine from the same manufacturer.

While we know manufacturer's claimed wet weights* are usually found in the Fiction Section, the relative difference should a good guide:

F700GS - 460 2011 model on (2008-2010 F650 listed @ 436)
F800 GS - 456
F800 GSA - 505
F750 GS - 494
F850 GS - 505
F850 GSA - 540
R 1150 R - 524
R1250 GS - 549
R1250 GSA - 591

Start adding hand guards / bash plate/ engine guards / windshield / luggage racks etc etc etc and the real world weight to Vark's point would be pretty different not only in total weight but in distribution.


* my apologies to everyone outside of the US and Liberia and Burma for not using a more logical system of measurement.

edit: sorry Burkino Faso-ians

ackme said:

While we know manufacturer's claimed wet weights* are usually found in the Fiction Section, the relative difference should a good guide:

F700GS - 460 2011 model on (2008-2010 F650 listed @ 436)
F800 GS - 456
F800 GSA - 505
F750 GS - 494
F850 GS - 505
F850 GSA - 540
R 1150 R - 524
R1250 GS - 549
R1250 GSA - 591

Start adding hand guards / bash plate/ engine guards / windshield / luggage racks etc etc etc and the real world weight to Vark's point would be pretty different not only in total weight but in distribution.


* my apologies to everyone outside of the US and Burkino Faso for not using a more logical system of measurement.

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Let me help by putting things in a useable format...

F700GS - 32 Stone
F800 GS - 32 Stone
F800 GSA - 36 Stone
F750 GS - 35 Stone
F850 GS - 36 Stone
F850 GSA - 38 Stone
R 1150 R - 37 Stone
R1250 GS - 39 Stone
R1250 GSA - 42 Stone

Kevin , I like mine 37 stones or less.
Is this going to be a long winter?