why no BMW ON section on forum?

HODAG · Mar 9, 2006

Can we add a section just for the ON. (just think the entire ME debate could have resided in one out of the way sections instead of everyone section.....)

But really.....
Just a dedicated forum section for the magazine. We have one for the website. Just thinking here.

why not??

Stuff2c · Mar 10, 2006

Makes sense to me.

gregfeeler · Mar 10, 2006

How would that work?

marK11LT said:
Can we add a section just for the ON. (just think the entire ME debate could have resided in one out of the way sections instead of everyone section.....)

But really.....
Just a dedicated forum section for the magazine. We have one for the website. Just thinking here.

why not??

What do you have in mind? I ask because the forum is for discussion while a magazine presents stories and information. The plan is to put more and more connected material from the ON onto the web site. Like additional material from articles too long to print completely, old articles, tech articles, etc. Vince is working on that with Scott. How would you see an "ON" section of the Forum working?

HODAG · Mar 10, 2006

GregFeeler said:
What do you have in mind? I ask because the forum is for discussion while a magazine presents stories and information. The plan is to put more and more connected material from the ON onto the web site. Like additional material from articles too long to print completely, old articles, tech articles, etc. Vince is working on that with Scott. How would you see an "ON" section of the Forum working?

It would be specific questions / discussion specific to content in ON. I understand furthering the website with expanded ON content.

1. the biggest would be more two way discussion about specific articles or content.
example:
"hey where is that route those guys took?"
"I took that route but took a left on hwy 110 good steak joint there"

2. discuss suggestions about the ON

belquar · Mar 10, 2006

marK11LT said:
It would be specific questions / discussion specific to content in ON. I understand furthering the website with expanded ON content.

1. the biggest would be more two way discussion about specific articles or content.
example:
"hey where is that route those guys took?"
"I took that route but took a left on hwy 110 good steak joint there"

2. discuss suggestions about the ON

Good steak joint???? :eat

gregfeeler · Mar 10, 2006

marK11LT said:
It would be specific questions / discussion specific to content in ON. I understand furthering the website with expanded ON content.

Ok, I'm being Devil's Advocate here:

1. the biggest would be more two way discussion about specific articles or content.
example:
"hey where is that route those guys took?"
"I took that route but took a left on hwy 110 good steak joint there"

All the ON stories are member contributed so to have that kind of discussion you would need the author to participate in the thread. Some might want to and some not. The ON staff wouldn't be much help with those. Nothing to stop that now, with just another thread under Campfire.

2. discuss suggestions about the ON

Could be some merit to that - but then again, it seems "suggestion" threads too often turn into bitch-fests.

Imagine this: instead of making a positive suggestion, someone goes off about how thereÔÇÖs too many oilhead (or airhead/kbike/world touring/etc) stories. They donÔÇÖt ride that bike or do those things so why should they have to be exposed to that stuff! IÔÇÖm not making this up ÔÇô that kind of feedback has come into the ON office from time to time. :fight

Then what happens is the Media Editor or whoever speaks for the ON is on the defensive and spending a lot of time they likely donÔÇÖt have explaining things again and again. I think weÔÇÖve all seen this happen here many times before, unfortunately.

If youÔÇÖre still with me, then two questions:
1. Would it be wrong to have some pretty tight moderation on an ÔÇ£ONÔÇØ forum to keep it focused on the positive?
2. Would it work for the representative from the ON post to reply on a schedule, like every other day or once a week or whatever? (As opposed to babysitting the forum traffic ÔÇ£interactivelyÔÇØ.)

HODAG · Mar 10, 2006

GregFeeler said:
All the ON stories are member contributed so to have that kind of discussion you would need the author to participate in the thread. Some might want to and some not. The ON staff wouldn't be much help with those. Nothing to stop that now, with just another thread under Campfire.

If the article is about a tour on route 66 I'm sure other members could lend their exprience, the original article would just be the catalyst to start the discussion. Or a review about a new bike, etc.

We can discuss the travels of Lewis and Clark with out them being their to participate.

GregFeeler said:
Could be some merit to that - but then again, it seems "suggestion" threads too often turn into bitch-fests. Imagine this: instead of making a positive suggestion, someone goes off about how thereÔÇÖs too many oilhead (or airhead/kbike/world touring/etc) stories. They donÔÇÖt ride that bike or do those things so why should they have to be exposed to that stuff! IÔÇÖm not making this up ÔÇô that kind of feedback has come into the ON office from time to time. ÔÇØ

true but at least the bitching about the ON would be centralized rather than infecting every other forum section. It happens now and that wouldn't change.

GregFeeler said:
Then what happens is the Media Editor or whoever speaks for the ON is on the defensive and spending a lot of time they likely donÔÇÖt have explaining things again and again. I think weÔÇÖve all seen this happen here many times before, unfortunately.

If youÔÇÖre still with me, then two questions:
1. Would it be wrong to have some pretty tight moderation on an ÔÇ£ONÔÇØ forum to keep it focused on the positive?
2. Would it work for the representative from the ON post to reply on a schedule, like every other day or once a week or whatever? (As opposed to babysitting the forum traffic ÔÇ£interactivelyÔÇØ.)

I kinda worry about that part, but....
1. Address the negative but keep it positive. Depends on the topic??
2. I don't know, that would be up to Ray how he wants to allocate resources (my cop out).

I now see that this new section could be a Bitch at Vince about everything in the mag., however it wasn't my intent. the idea sprang from a PM i received from a contributor about a comment I made about his article, and would we want to see more on that topic.

mark

mika · Mar 10, 2006

What about an alternative to the forum.

The main page has a listing of the articles in ON. Could a discussion area be added to the end of the listing for an article that allows discussion between readers about the specific article and the possibility for the author to add if they desire?

Secondly why not add a letter to the Media Editor Section to the members only area of the forum. What I have in mind is a way to message Vince, the electronic variation of sending him snail mail. At his discretion he would post the message and his response. Not all that different to what goes on now in the paper world, but without the month or more wait for a possible response.

USERNAME · Mar 10, 2006

maybe we open a new section of the forums. we call it moa/dev/null. all the complaining about media editors, late arriving magazines, and gas powered blenders and cursing trollops can go there.

MARKAHARMS · Apr 1, 2006

INformation

What about someone seeking specific information not in the article. Like last month's article about volunteering your bike to escort photogrhers for marathons and bicycle races. It sounded interesting to me but it had no information on how to volunteer. Where could I find that information??

kbasa · Apr 2, 2006

Interesting discussion going on here guys.

:lurk

gregfeeler · Apr 2, 2006

marK11LT said:
To be honest.....
as the MOA forum we need a dedicated area of the forum to discuss the magazine referred to as the ON.

"Forum guys" head out of asses time,
I really wish I knew who you all are. Because this would be sent as a PM.

the magazine needs its own area of discussion, I believe it now more than ever. Not for Vince but for US The dues paying members........

Its not about the mag. vs. web anymore

"web" guys time for you now.......

I got questions from the mag, where I put them????????
campfire

Mark
member $$$$$$

Mark,
See my post on this a couple of weeks ago - you seemed to concede some of my "devil's advocate" points then. But, to recap:

If you are asking about "space" here on the forum, there is nothing stopping anyone from starting a thread about something in the ON right now. However, judging by the lack of posts, there doesn't appear to be a ground swell of forum user interest in this - other than *this* discussion about how we need a dedicated forum for something no one is posting about. :banghead

To be clear, we're not opposed to considering new forums, but so far we've handled virtually every topic imaginable within the structure we've got now.

OTOH, if you are asking Vince and the magazine contributors to take on the additional task of starting discussions or fielding discussion questions about ON articles - then you're knocking on the wrong door. That would be something for the Media Department to consider.

Bottom line - take a shot at starting threads on ON material and let's see where it goes. Fair enough? :deal

mika · Apr 2, 2006

Greg, donÔÇÖt be too quick to assume there is not an interest in developing such a section. I think the idea has merit and needs to be fleshed out a bit. I believe the lack of posts has more to do with apprehensions about starting another media editor type debate rather than a lack of openness and interest in such a section.

You are correct that the forum has handled most topics in its current form. However; has it handled it in the best way? Have topics or questions been lost in the shuffle. I read most posts as many do. There was a time when I only scanned the oilhead section and missed things of interest raised in other sections.

To KentÔÇÖs point of such a section being merely a forum on the forum; while a potential outcome I believe it misses the true value: a focused place to have discussions about questions in the forum in a timely basis. The example of Lewis and Clark was brought up. I used an article in ON in planning my 2003 trip that followed the trail. Snail mail turnaround times did not allow time for me to ask follow up questions before I had to finalize plans. A developed section such as is being proposed may have facilitated my questions in a useful way.

I support Mark11LT, not just because of Miss Lillie and the revolution, but because the idea has merit. As we bring more people along and they learn to combine the forum and ON as part of their MOA experience such a section could be very helpful and important. A section in the forum list would go a long way of joining the two media forms.

gregfeeler · Apr 2, 2006

Could you phrase that in the form of a question?

M1ka said:
Greg, donÔÇÖt be too quick to assume there is not an interest in developing such a section. I think the idea has merit and needs to be fleshed out a bit.

It might help to define what we're talking about, since I'm a wee bit confused. Are you (colectively) a) just asking for a dedicated forum for general member discusson of ON topic, b) for an "interactive" forum where the the authors of articles in the ON would be expected to be available to answer questions, or c) have I've got it all screwed up? :dunno

mika · Apr 2, 2006

YES

More seriously, we are not a monolith so I can not make a collective response.

RE A: Yes there are times when we would want to discuss things specifically about what is written in ON. The value of the specific section for me is that it would frame the discussion.

RE B: Sort of. I would think that people that would write an article would want some feedback. I am flattered when a thread I started draws responses or resurfaces. I personally do not expect authors to be expected to respond to every comment or question. I do not respond to every comment made about my postings. I would expect something along the lines of the author of an article or significant person for a recuring column in ON would be e-mail alerted about posts regarding their article.

RE C: Unless you ride on water you are probably as prone to screwing up as I am. :stick

HODAG · Apr 2, 2006

A few (sober) thoughts....

We have a dedicated area for "MOA website" discussion, It the third least used section with only 132 threads. It would be last if the vintage and F650 didn't have better forums elsewhere.

I would say "dedicated" discussions about the ON easily outpaces it. We talk about the magazine alot now with no real dedicated area. Just think how much that would grow with a dedicated area.

a) just asking for a dedicated forum for general member discusson of ON
topic.
Yes

b) for an "interactive" forum where the the authors of articles in the ON would be expected to be available to answer questions.

no , if they want to more power to them, not required however. Not a requirement for Vince to read at all.

c) have I've got it all screwed up?
kinda

for instance I want to start a thread to discuss the new features in ON, where would you put it?
Doghouse?
mark

BOKRIJDER · Apr 2, 2006

For the past (many) months, the guiding light has been the integration of the web and the ON formats. A stated goal has been the expansion of web usage by the members. Who are these hundreds of new web participants going to be? For the most part readers of the ON magazine. For many the ON has been their reality of what the MOA is. The ON has been the face of the MOA. Consider a member, who's experience has been limited to the ON visiting the forum for the first time. What will catch his eye immediately -- an ON topic. Why, comfort zone and linkage with his previous MOA experience, the ON magazine. His likely response, "So that's what they were talking about, Media Integration. This is great, I just read the magazine and here are people talking about it. I can relate to this."
Now imagine the first time participant visiting without the benefit of an ON topic. As a forum user, I know to look here and there for various subjects but the new visitor does not have that advantage. Will it be obvious to him that he should visit Clubhouse or Campfire? He will stumble across threads related to ON subject matter, but the impact of media linkage will be lost. Consider that the new visitor might be less than enthusiastic about the web. Will he bother digging through topics and threads or would a category which he can instantly relate to, be more likely to grab his interest?
I don't buy into the notion that an ON category might turn into a bitch fest. I've only heard praise for the magazine, in fact I've never heard a complaint. The only way this will happen is if Vince fails and the magazine deteriorates. I don't believe that this will happen.
If an ON category is added, a scenario or notion that authors or individuals would be obligated to field questions puzzles me. My image of a forum is that of a conversation between numerous people. A forum expands a subject through the input of many individuals. I can imagine an ON category becoming the most popular on the site. Every month the introduction of new subject matter stimulating new threads. The rounding out of ride reports through the input of riders familiar with a region. If a particular thread develops to the point of being worthy of a particular category, move it. I see this being done with the present format. Too much work? Is anyone going to complain if a thread isn't moved? This forum is about having a good time, sharing experiences, and motorcycle conversation. An ON category will act as an icebreaker and conversation starter for newcomers.

Motard
1150GS
R50

kbasa · Apr 2, 2006

Motard said:
For the past (many) months, the guiding light has been the integration of the web and the ON formats. A stated goal has been the expansion of web usage by the members. Who are these hundreds of new web participants going to be? For the most part readers of the ON magazine. For many the ON has been their reality of what the MOA is. The ON has been the face of the MOA. Consider a member, who's experience has been limited to the ON visiting the forum for the first time. What will catch his eye immediately -- an ON topic. Why, comfort zone and linkage with his previous MOA experience, the ON magazine. His likely response, "So that's what they were talking about, Media Integration. This is great, I just read the magazine and here are people talking about it. I can relate to this."
Now imagine the first time participant visiting without the benefit of an ON topic. As a forum user, I know to look here and there for various subjects but the new visitor does not have that advantage. Will it be obvious to him that he should visit Clubhouse or Campfire? He will stumble across threads related to ON subject matter, but the impact of media linkage will be lost. Consider that the new visitor might be less than enthusiastic about the web. Will he bother digging through topics and threads or would a category which he can instantly relate to, be more likely to grab his interest?
I don't buy into the notion that an ON category might turn into a bitch fest. I've only heard praise for the magazine, in fact I've never heard a complaint. The only way this will happen is if Vince fails and the magazine deteriorates. I don't believe that this will happen.
If an ON category is added, a scenario or notion that authors or individuals would be obligated to field questions puzzles me. My image of a forum is that of a conversation between numerous people. A forum expands a subject through the input of many individuals. I can imagine an ON category becoming the most popular on the site. Every month the introduction of new subject matter stimulating new threads. The rounding out of ride reports through the input of riders familiar with a region. If a particular thread develops to the point of being worthy of a particular category, move it. I see this being done with the present format. Too much work? Is anyone going to complain if a thread isn't moved? This forum is about having a good time, sharing experiences, and motorcycle conversation. An ON category will act as an icebreaker and conversation starter for newcomers.

Motard
1150GS
R50

Excellent and well thought out post.

Thanks. Let's try something over in Campfire, shall we? :evil

gregfeeler · Apr 2, 2006

Motard said:
For the past (many) months, the guiding light has been the integration of the web and the ON formats. A stated goal has been the expansion of web usage by the members. Who are these hundreds of new web participants going to be? For the most part readers of the ON magazine. For many the ON has been their reality of what the MOA is. The ON has been the face of the MOA. Consider a member, who's experience has been limited to the ON visiting the forum for the first time. What will catch his eye immediately -- an ON topic. Why, comfort zone and linkage with his previous MOA experience, the ON magazine. His likely response, "So that's what they were talking about, Media Integration. This is great, I just read the magazine and here are people talking about it. I can relate to this."
Now imagine the first time participant visiting without the benefit of an ON topic. As a forum user, I know to look here and there for various subjects but the new visitor does not have that advantage. Will it be obvious to him that he should visit Clubhouse or Campfire? He will stumble across threads related to ON subject matter, but the impact of media linkage will be lost. Consider that the new visitor might be less than enthusiastic about the web. Will he bother digging through topics and threads or would a category which he can instantly relate to, be more likely to grab his interest?
I don't buy into the notion that an ON category might turn into a bitch fest. I've only heard praise for the magazine, in fact I've never heard a complaint. The only way this will happen is if Vince fails and the magazine deteriorates. I don't believe that this will happen.
If an ON category is added, a scenario or notion that authors or individuals would be obligated to field questions puzzles me. My image of a forum is that of a conversation between numerous people. A forum expands a subject through the input of many individuals. I can imagine an ON category becoming the most popular on the site. Every month the introduction of new subject matter stimulating new threads. The rounding out of ride reports through the input of riders familiar with a region. If a particular thread develops to the point of being worthy of a particular category, move it. I see this being done with the present format. Too much work? Is anyone going to complain if a thread isn't moved? This forum is about having a good time, sharing experiences, and motorcycle conversation. An ON category will act as an icebreaker and conversation starter for newcomers.

Motard
1150GS
R50

A good case is being made for this idea, and it bears some further discussion. Since we are trying to "coordinate" all the 'MOA media, the idea needs to make some rounds - which we'll do. In the meanwhile, let's give this a try by using the Campfire forum. Start some ON-topic treads and let's see how much traction they get from the forum members at large.

BOKRIJDER · Apr 3, 2006

I would like to add one more thought. I believe that the forum is divided between public and member accessible areas. ( I always log on, therefore I'm not sure.)
If the ON topic were to be located in the public accessible area, a large number of random visitors would be introduced to the magazine. Reading active, enthusiastic, and informative discussion relating to magazine content will be a good incentive to get the publication. One would feel a bit out of the loop not having it. This should be good for magazine circulation and membership numbers.
Being a public category might require a bit tighter topic guideline rule, but I imagine that our crowd is pretty good about playing by the rules.

Motard

why no BMW ON section on forum?

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