Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 29 of 29

Thread: Clutch Fluid

  1. #16
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I fully agree that the cost difference between Vitamol V10 which is a 10Wt. hydraulic oil by Castrol and other 10 Wt hydraulic oils is minor. But it is just part of my overall cynicism when I read dogma on this forum and other places that we need to use what BMW recommends. I agree that it is mostly a good idea to use what meets BMW specifications but a specification is not the same as a recommendation of a product from the company that does or has sponsored BMW's racing team.

    I still remember when BMW recommended anti-seize as a spline lubricant followed by BMW #10 red grease which was so unsuitable it melted at room temperature on the shelf, let alone in the hot confines of the clutch bellhousing, followed by Staburags assembly paste, followed by something else. And most know just how well those fiascos worked out for them. Which is to say BMW is a company, not some sort of god.

    But as always, it's your bike and your billfold.
    +1
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Billerica, Mssachusetts
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanColes View Post
    Depends on which "Clutch Fluid" you are referring to Ken.

    1. Clutch Fluid for the actual clutch
    2. Clutch Fluid in the Reservoir for the clutch lever (the reservoir is located at the rear of the bike)

    #1 - Yes - As I suspect you know, the clutch is integral with the engine oil (wet clutch) and the 10k engine oil change takes care of that
    #2 - No - Because the clutch is hydraulicly operated it has a reservoir that is located in the back section of the bike. This operates like most other hydraulic cylinders and should not need replacing as unlike brake fluid, it is not subject to extremes of heat, etc. Most hydraulic cylinders operate on one of three fluids, hydraulic oil (10W is common), brake fluid, or ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid like Dextron III). They typically aren't subjected to significant heat build-up, their systems are not usually opened up (exposure to moisture), etc., so for all intents and purposes, unless otherwise stated (not mentioned in BMW Service Schedules that I've seen), they are a lifetime fluid.
    This is "copy-paste" from somewher as a generic info. Most of it is not true or applicable for our bikes. The water colled clutch doesn't use brake fluid nor ATF. It uses a mineral oil. The reservoar is locatad on the handlebar.

  3. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Billerica, Mssachusetts
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Indeed. BMW marks it on the hydraulic clutch master cylinder cover (lid). It is either marked DOT4 for the early systems and mineral oil for the later systems. I don't recall when the change happened but I think it was at the time of the introduction of the R1200 bikes. I know my single spark R1150R still used DOT 4 brake fluid.
    The change happened with the water0cooled engine and the use of the wet clutch.

  4. #19
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    The change happened with the water0cooled engine and the use of the wet clutch.
    No, it changed with the R1200 Boxer circa 2004/2005. Both Camheads and Hexheads specified mineral oil (Hyspin V10 IIRC).
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  5. #20
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    This is "copy-paste" from somewher as a generic info...
    Really??? And you know this from what? Which specific section? You are completely 100% wrong on this and I take great exception to such an unfounded lame "driveby" accusation. What I wrote were my own thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    ...The water colled clutch doesn't use brake fluid nor ATF. It uses a mineral oil...
    I did not state that they did use brake fluid or ATF.
    Most hydraulic cylinders operate on one of three fluids, hydraulic oil (10W is common), brake fluid, or ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid like Dextron III)
    I've been dealing with Mineral Oils for decades and in case you are not aware, both ATF and Brake Fluid is often Mineral Oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    ...Most of it is not true or applicable for our bikes...
    I believe that all of what I wrote is true, but I am open to being corrected. Please identify what you believe is not true. Other than identifying in one sentence that "Most hydraulic cylinders operate on one of three fluids...", it would seem to me that everything else applies directly to the R1200/1250.

    For you to say "doesn't use brake fluid nor ATF. It uses a mineral oil" would suggest that you are not actually aware that brake fluid and AFT are very often if not usually mineral oil. Synthetics are another thing. I used the terms hydraulic oil, brake fluid, and ATF separately because while they are all typically mineral oil, they usually differ in their additives based on their intended usage. However, that does not mean that they can or cannot be interchanged. It only means that one needs to be aware of what they are doing as for instance, you can't use straight mineral oil hyrdaulic fluid on a system designed for mineral oil brake fluid as it will swell the seals and gum up the works. Those seals are deigned to work with the additive packages that are used with mineral oil brake fluid not mineral oil hyrdaulic fluid.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    ... The reservoar is locatad on the handlebar.
    I made a mistake in my typing/thinking, which I identified immediately after Lee noted it, I had forgotten to edit my original post which I have now done as I really don't like misinformation.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  6. #21
    got, got, got no time... rguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Rogersville, MO
    Posts
    533
    I believe it happened with the twin spark models. My 2004 R1150R twin spark had mineral oil clutch. (The type specifically designed NOT to be used for brake fluid)
    Neal - '16 R1200GS / '81 R65
    _______________________
    Be the person that your dog thinks you are.

  7. #22
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    south of Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,690
    Not necessarily; BMW often does changes mid-model or staggers which bikes get them.
    Example: my '04 RT still has the brake fluid in the clutch system.
    And, I don't know if this is due to an error in the parts fiche or just because they still had some parts left over on the assembly line, but my fuel damper relay (to slow the RID fuel gauge action) is listed as "2002 and earlier".

  8. #23
    Registered User gsinnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    605
    Ed Apelian
    Motorcycling is my passion because golf is far too dangerous!
    2018 R1200GS - Light White !
    2016 R1200RT- Platinum Bronze

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Billerica, Mssachusetts
    Posts
    24
    Let me tell everyone here that for the past two years I have been riding my watercooled boxer clutch with CVS brand mineral oil, the one that has zero fragrances or additives. Ussually you can ask the pharmacist which one is pure mineral oil. Period. Nothing hasppened to the clutch. Go buy your expensive Vitamoil!

  10. #25
    Registered User gsinnc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    605
    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    Let me tell everyone here that for the past two years I have been riding my watercooled boxer clutch with CVS brand mineral oil, the one that has zero fragrances or additives. Ussually you can ask the pharmacist which one is pure mineral oil. Period. Nothing hasppened to the clutch. Go buy your expensive Vitamoil!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlCD5CYAcU
    Ed Apelian
    Motorcycling is my passion because golf is far too dangerous!
    2018 R1200GS - Light White !
    2016 R1200RT- Platinum Bronze

  11. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Wills Point, TX
    Posts
    489
    I haven't needed to add any, in fact I had to remove some. I have that saved if ever needed. Beemer Boneyard sell https://www.beemerboneyard.com/magminoil.html and if you look in your MOA ON (Owners News) you'll see they offer a 10% discount to MOA members.

  12. #27
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by kosta15auto@yahoo.com View Post
    Let me tell everyone here that for the past two years I have been riding my watercooled boxer clutch with CVS brand mineral oil, the one that has zero fragrances or additives. Ussually you can ask the pharmacist which one is pure mineral oil. Period. Nothing hasppened to the clutch. Go buy your expensive Vitamoil!
    I'm glad you are not seeing any negative results, however, I would not recommend this to anyone without perhaps adding a "buyer beware" provision. I believe that the viscosity index of pure mineral oil is noticeably higher than what the clutch systems specs call for.

    The system on our bikes calls for a 10W Hydraulic Clutch Mineral Oil, which is a fairly low viscosity that I believe is arrived at with the use of viscosity modifiers. BMW specs their Vitamol V 10 which is just rebranded Castol Vitamol V 10, a 10W Mineral Oil with a specific additive package.

    From Castrol's product datasheet:
    Castol Vitamol V 10 ... special additive technology results in an improvement in the VI (Viscosity Index) performance, corrosion prevention, pressure absorption ability and ageing protection
    The additive package with Vitamol V10, or Magura Blue Blood, etc. are designed to keep the systems working properly for many, many years. They are specifically formulated to be 10W via viscosity modifiers because the viscosity of the oil used in a hydraulic clutch is perhaps the most important part of things (more so than corrosion prevention, etc., etc.). If it is too thick or thin then it can adversely affect the wear of the internal parts as well as how the pressure is applied to the clutch itself.

    I don't know at what point a difference in viscosity would become a problem, and as you say, you've not noticed any negative effects, and everything might be fine. I really don't know. However, I'm not sure the savings of $3-$5 is worth risking a $200 clutch cylinder. This is lifetime fluid so it is hard to imagine anyone needing to buy much at all.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

  13. #28
    Mehrten
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    167

    Changing the Clutch Fluid on a 2016 R1200RS

    At the 18,000 mile service, I flushed the clutch system on our 2016 R1200RS using BMW's mineral oil.

    Getting to the slave cylinder was damn near impossible. Seriously, damn near impossible.

    The starter was in the way and it needed more of the rear of the bike to come off before it would come off. WAY too much work...

    Using 14 inch forceps I was able to get a plastic hose on the nipple; and using an ignition sized small wrench I was able to get the bleed screw opened and closed.

    A real hassle that I do not plan on doing again unless something goes wrong with the slave cylinder.

    Question:

    Is the RT LC just as difficult?

    Who else reading this thread has done a flush of an LC R bike?

  14. #29
    Dress for fall & avoid it AlanColes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bedford, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,063
    Quote Originally Posted by mehrten View Post
    At the 18,000 mile service, I flushed the clutch system on our 2016 R1200RS using BMW's mineral oil.

    Getting to the slave cylinder was damn near impossible. Seriously, damn near impossible.

    The starter was in the way and it needed more of the rear of the bike to come off before it would come off. WAY too much work...

    Using 14 inch forceps I was able to get a plastic hose on the nipple; and using an ignition sized small wrench I was able to get the bleed screw opened and closed.

    A real hassle that I do not plan on doing again unless something goes wrong with the slave cylinder.

    Question:

    Is the RT LC just as difficult?

    Who else reading this thread has done a flush of an LC R bike?
    I can't help with any advice on accessing the slave cylinder, except to say that there is no reason to access it unless there is a problem.

    The reason BMW is now using mineral oil hydraulic fluid vs their previous practice of using brake fluid is that it (Vitamol V10 and its equivalents) are lifetime fluids.

    The only reason to change the hydraulic clutch reservoir fluid is if there is a problem with the system or it has to be dismantled for some reason.
    Regards, Alan - President BMWONS - BMWMOA/BMWRA/BMWONS/Airheads
    Current: 2019 R1250RT / '06 Ducati ST3s / '91 R100GS / '86 R80RT / '75 R90S / '73 850 & '70 750 Commando Prev: '14 R1200RT / '04 R1150RT / '81 Honda GL1100 / '77 Suzuki GS750 / '73 Norton 850 Commando

Similar Threads

  1. BMW Clutch Fluid
    By kthutchinson in forum Motorrad
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-07-2011, 03:22 PM
  2. clutch fluid?
    By r1100r in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-28-2011, 04:31 PM
  3. Too much clutch fluid?
    By jurgen in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-22-2010, 02:27 AM
  4. R1200 Clutch Fluid ('05)
    By bobgerman in forum Hexheads/Camheads
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-12-2010, 11:56 PM
  5. Oil in Clutch Fluid on 04 RT
    By cwtester in forum Oilheads
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-28-2006, 04:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •