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Thread: Calculating minimum turning radius

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    It doesn't really matter. But, since the answer is quite subjective, knowing why the information was wanted might help somebody formulate a useful answer. Just guessing.
    Post 10 seem to answer the why? Or perhaps not.
    Last edited by brownie0486; 10-12-2019 at 05:39 PM.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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  2. #32
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    What I'm getting here from some is that because I asked a question no one seems to be able to answer, it must be a dumb question. Does it freakin matter the motive for asking the question?
    How high is up?

    Not a dumb question, but finding an exact answer has to assume values for too many variables to be useful, so nobody bothers.

    How far can the rider lean and maintain control with the fork on the steering stops? Speed changes height and effective wheelbase, as does the load. An actual calculation will probably also need to consider fork length, trail, rake, tire diameters and widths, and much more. Easier to find a puddle in a parking lot, wet your tires, lay the bike on it's side, power through a circle, and measure the resulting track.

    It's safe to say the GS turning circle is less than 16 feet, more than 12 feet, the rest depends on the rider.

    I can turn my RT in 16 ft in a parking lot, and could probably reduce that with practice. I don't do u-turns in my 16 ft driveway because If I run off the edge, I'll likely drop the bike.

    My brother-in-law has to back up to turn in 18 ft.

    The only useful number is how small a circle YOU can ride.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  3. #33
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    As I have said before, the math doesn't matter. Skill and technique matter.

    Turn the handlebars to full lock, counterweight the hell out of the bike and skillfully coordinate throttle, clutch and rear brake while dragging the hard parts of the bike all the way around a 360 degree turn. That will be the minimum practical, as opposed to calculated or theoretical, turning radius for Your bike and Your skill level.

    Does it really matter if on paper you should be able to turn in a 16 foot radius, but the best you can manage in the real world is 23 feet?? YOUR minimum turning radius is 23 feet. Welcome to the real world.

    Friedle
    Ride fast safely

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    As I have said before, the math doesn't matter. Skill and technique matter.

    Turn the handlebars to full lock, counterweight the hell out of the bike and skillfully coordinate throttle, clutch and rear brake while dragging the hard parts of the bike all the way around a 360 degree turn. That will be the minimum practical, as opposed to calculated or theoretical, turning radius for Your bike and Your skill level.

    Does it really matter if on paper you should be able to turn in a 16 foot radius, but the best you can manage in the real world is 23 feet?? YOUR minimum turning radius is 23 feet. Welcome to the real world.

    Friedle
    Why yes it does, IF one wants to work on their skills and have full command of the bike in slow speed turns. Someone doing 23 foot circles on any bike, that can do physically do 16 footers, doesn't have full command of that bike. If one can do 23's and the bike is physically capable of 16's, then one has something to work toward to improve their skills on that bike IF they want to improve their control/command of that particular bike.

    As an example, there's cone course riders that use the LT, they have a problem with 16's based on wheelbase, yet a few can do the 16 foot challenges, that gives insight and a goal to work toward if they own an LT. It may not matter to the majority, it may seem irrelevant to the majority, but to the LT cone event riders understand the bike CAN do 16's, so that's a goal to work toward in the pursuit of full command of their bike.

    When training with Hawthorne PD in Ca., I didn't think my GT would do 16's, till a motor officer jumped on my bike and did 16's like it was 20's. I wondered just how tight a circle it could really turn, and his demonstration gave me goals to improve my own skills, knowing the bike was capable of 16's and likely somewhat less than that. The progression of that thought process led to the threads question.

    It may be something that can't be ascertained, and if that's the case, then the question has still been answered. I appreciate everyone's input, next weekend I'll pose the question to high level competitors at a major day long cone event.
    Last edited by brownie0486; 10-13-2019 at 01:31 AM.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  5. #35
    Registered User mlytle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    If we can establish an upright turning radius, then it will be less when leaning the bike in cone events. Just looking for the turning radius of the bike if you walked it in a circle bars at full lock.
    of course if that is all that is being sought, then no math is needed. find some pavement and walk the bike in a circle with bars at full lock. done.
    Marshall
    92 K75s, 94 K75s, 96 K1100RS (caretaker), 09 K1300s

  6. #36
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    On my '05 Ultra Classic I used to do full lock, leaned over turns in my back yard in the grass. For some reason I could not get comfortable doing the same on my later Harleys. Not sure if it was the frame change in '09, or the high speed crash I had in '10 that frazzled my nerves.

    My '05 was very comfortable doing low speed, full lock turns. I used to do figure 8s in most any parking lot, with my wife on back while we were waiting for other riders to gear up.

    I hit the ditch back in '10 doing 70 MPH, long story, my fault, (one of the few accidents I know of where it was the rider's fault!) :-) but that wreck took me a couple years of riding to feel somewhat normal, and I have not gotten back to that comfort level I had before the wreck yet. Also I am 60 years old and I am feeling the results of time nagging at me a bit too.
    From the only real Fargo, ND!

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    On my '05 Ultra Classic I used to do full lock, leaned over turns in my back yard in the grass. For some reason I could not get comfortable doing the same on my later Harleys. Not sure if it was the frame change in '09, or the high speed crash I had in '10 that frazzled my nerves.

    My '05 was very comfortable doing low speed, full lock turns. I used to do figure 8s in most any parking lot, with my wife on back while we were waiting for other riders to gear up.

    I hit the ditch back in '10 doing 70 MPH, long story, my fault, (one of the few accidents I know of where it was the rider's fault!) :-) but that wreck took me a couple years of riding to feel somewhat normal, and I have not gotten back to that comfort level I had before the wreck yet. Also I am 60 years old and I am feeling the results of time nagging at me a bit too.
    99-06 road kings seem to be the preferred bike for many. I'm told 07 on they stretched the frame an inch or so, not as adept in the tighter cone patterns. One of the reasons for the thread. The BMW LT's have a harder time doing 18's due to wheelbase length.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    What I'm getting here from some is that because I asked a question no one seems to be able to answer, it must be a dumb question. Does it freakin matter the motive for asking the question?
    Do you have a lean angle indicator on your bike that you reference?

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by rhodetrip View Post
    Do you have a lean angle indicator on your bike that you reference?
    Sure do, me. It's coupled to the motion indicators that extrapolate slow speed through the seat pan. Between the two, proper lean angle can be applied. The formula tends to be flexible based on tire selection/composition and tire pressures.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    The minimum turning radius at full lock and the radius which can be achieved by a trained (moto Cop style) competitive cone rider are not the same and would be hard to calculate in any event.
    I dropped my RT on its side twice practicing this when I first got the bike. I have yet to scrape the ground with body work at full lock. Full lock just got less full with the addition of the mounts for the BMW tank bag which I need to modify.
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