crna59
Member
I just looked and the listed weight with full tank of gas is actually 205kg or 452lbs. I had less than a 1/2 tank, which would have been about ~16lbs.
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BMW's Too top heavy for older riders?
- Thread starter jconway607
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- motobikejack
I just looked and the listed weight with full tank of gas is actually 205kg or 452lbs. I had less than a 1/2 tank, which would have been about ~16lbs.
ncpbmw1953
Member
What's missing in the lineup is a model I believe is definitely doable but no brand is currently doing it. What makes RTW such a phenomenal Sport Tourer is the fact it is very competent in everything from tight twisties on up to droning on an interstate. To earn top score for Sport & Tour you need excellent suspension, fabulous weather/wind management, very ample power, and the various comfort-related tech features that our beloved RTW's enjoy. The only area to improve for me at going on 67y/o now is very simply this: the SAME level of comfort & performance features my RT has, ALL OF THEM, but with a curb weight around 520lb tops. No compromises, so it might look like this:
The P:W ratio of this concept model beats our RTW's, at least the pre 1250 models. At 520lbs with a little lower CoG it will easily outperform RTW. There are ample compromised models out there and some here will throw those names out but none is really what I'm after which is ALL of the comfort and performance of my RTW but in a package that is much friendlier weight-wise. I think it can be done, not cheaply, but very well done. I truly believe if this model debuted and was done really well it would really take off. Its target audience will be aging ST riders, but would appeal to a larger audience I feel. BMW might have a hard time squeezing this model into their lineup perhaps--but w/o a boxer engine it might fit w/o stealing too much share from RTW. F800GT really was too compromised to be a super seller but was on the right track w/ its lower CoG, light weight belt drive.
- 900-1000cc displacement, 115hp, smooth power plant with transverse crankshaft
- Fully adjustable electrically controlled windscreen
- Trimmed fairing, lighter/simpler panniers
- belt drive w/ 50K mile change interval (much lighter, more efficient, maintenance-free and clean)
- ABS Pro, Dynamic ESA, ASC, heated grips, heated seat, cruise control
- Ergos very similar to RTW which is balanced for ST
- Styling/paint will emphasize sport, whereas ergos and features will match sport & tour requirements)
- 520lb fully fueled w/ empty panniers
The P:W ratio of this concept model beats our RTW's, at least the pre 1250 models. At 520lbs with a little lower CoG it will easily outperform RTW. There are ample compromised models out there and some here will throw those names out but none is really what I'm after which is ALL of the comfort and performance of my RTW but in a package that is much friendlier weight-wise. I think it can be done, not cheaply, but very well done. I truly believe if this model debuted and was done really well it would really take off. Its target audience will be aging ST riders, but would appeal to a larger audience I feel. BMW might have a hard time squeezing this model into their lineup perhaps--but w/o a boxer engine it might fit w/o stealing too much share from RTW. F800GT really was too compromised to be a super seller but was on the right track w/ its lower CoG, light weight belt drive.
pappy35
New member
Add to this list a lowered seat height (say 29" or 30").
If any manufacturer offered such a machine I would be the first in line to check it out. I'm not a fan of the Rotax engines because they sound like they've got pea gravel banging around in the crankcase and are hot.
powwow
Member
Also, make sure the bike is in gear when you start to lift it. If not, the bike will roll as you lift and in addition to the weight of the bike, you'll likely twist your torso to hold onto it...your lower back will not like that. DAMHIK.
pappy35
New member
Right on. Missed that. Yeah, that would be #2 behind shutting the engine off.
Personal decision on when too infirm to ride
Everyone's health is different, so some will ride forever, and some will make lifestyle or bike changes. Crash bars help in lifting the bike since the bike uses them as a pivot point and usually doesn't fall "all" the way down. An RT is probably a little too delicate to even think of dropping it, all those expensive plastic fairings. If it is increasingly likely that you might drop your bike, you should probably get something a lot lighter, or built more like a tank (GS) than a fragile RT.
I am 73, 5'6" and ride a factory-lowered 2017 R12GS. I've dropped it five times, always at low speed, maneuvering. No damage at all to the bike (except minor dings on crash bars.) I have upper and lower crash bars and there are scratches on all of them. Having the bike better fit by being lowered makes it less likely to fall over. Once its down, though, it is a pig to lift, about 600 pounds in current configuration. In the right circumstances, I can right it by myself, but not in every circumstance.
Since there are some circumstances where it is virtually impossible for me to lift the bike by myself I built and carry a device to jack the bike up, similiar to the commercial gadget eastbound(dot)shop motowinch. I haven't had to use it yet, but nice to know it is there. (BTW, if I had it to do over, I would just buy the commercial product, rather than building my own.)
I have had a number of open (incision from top to bottom) stomach surgeries so am very aware of potential for incisional hernias, because I've had a bunch, and I really don't want any more repairs.
In the photo below I removed all the bags and boxes as far as possible to lighten the bike before I attempted to lift it. I was annoyed at BMW's fuel tank to cap connection, because it was leaking fuel.
Everyone's health is different, so some will ride forever, and some will make lifestyle or bike changes. Crash bars help in lifting the bike since the bike uses them as a pivot point and usually doesn't fall "all" the way down. An RT is probably a little too delicate to even think of dropping it, all those expensive plastic fairings. If it is increasingly likely that you might drop your bike, you should probably get something a lot lighter, or built more like a tank (GS) than a fragile RT.
I am 73, 5'6" and ride a factory-lowered 2017 R12GS. I've dropped it five times, always at low speed, maneuvering. No damage at all to the bike (except minor dings on crash bars.) I have upper and lower crash bars and there are scratches on all of them. Having the bike better fit by being lowered makes it less likely to fall over. Once its down, though, it is a pig to lift, about 600 pounds in current configuration. In the right circumstances, I can right it by myself, but not in every circumstance.
Since there are some circumstances where it is virtually impossible for me to lift the bike by myself I built and carry a device to jack the bike up, similiar to the commercial gadget eastbound(dot)shop motowinch. I haven't had to use it yet, but nice to know it is there. (BTW, if I had it to do over, I would just buy the commercial product, rather than building my own.)
I have had a number of open (incision from top to bottom) stomach surgeries so am very aware of potential for incisional hernias, because I've had a bunch, and I really don't want any more repairs.
In the photo below I removed all the bags and boxes as far as possible to lighten the bike before I attempted to lift it. I was annoyed at BMW's fuel tank to cap connection, because it was leaking fuel.
jconway607
JohnWC
I have always thought my R1100RT is the best bike I have ever owned. But I have also come to the conclusion that owning a bike with that much plastic covering it is a bad idea. I'm not an off road rider, (it's Ohio after all) but I would definitely switch to a GS style bike that could tip over without incurring $500 or worse in repair parts. I had a Honda PC800 for a brief time recently, but it left quickly when I realized the plastic parts were getting older and more brittle. Otherwise, a nice, practical bike. But even with GS style bikes being less fragile, it's the higher center of gravity and more total weight that concerns me. When you're on one and it starts to go over, you're panicking in trying to get out of it's way before 500 pounds lands on your leg or ankle. Not something I want to risk anymore.
ncpbmw1953
Member
Yes add an adjustable seat height as well and take the best weight-reduction strategies from the F800GT for example its fuel tank concealed and lower to help keep CoG low, as well as belt drive which was a very positive attribute for that model just ask your average F800GT owner for which the presence of the belt drive was a significant part of their purchase decision. I agree w/ Rotax engine in terms of noise and vibes. I think BMW no longer gets the F engines from Rotax. I believe if the model described was done right it would easily become a hit in terms of market share, relatively speaking, especially w/o competition from multiple brands. Adventure styles still are substantial but that will wane eventually I predict. The most growing market in the US seems to be getting older and older as these are the folks with a history of motorcycling and w/ time and discretionary $$ and fewer and fewer ride 2-up as they age so the heft of a K bike or even RTW isn't as necessary, and almost universally as people age they appreciate the lighter curb weight, and yet now we have an 1800cc model from BMW. Good luck selling lots of those
Visian
look out!!!
In reality, you’re talking about marketing, a corporate activity aimed at creating the beliefs that get you to buy more, more, more.... while spending more, more, more...
Until I got Punkin’ I had forgotten how much fun it is to ride a smaller lighter bike, and trust me, I don’t care what you’re riding... in the tight twisties my little bike will be glued you your butt!
I realize that we are all a bunch of old farts here, but imo, the length and scope of this thread is proof that BMW has decided not to cater to its current customers, instead focusing on selling more, more, more to younger (<50 yo) riders and letting older customers go to different brands... Suzuki WeeStrom, Honda CB500, new Yamaha T7 Tenere, Kawasaki Versys, KTM Duke... et al.
I am currently riding around here in the French Alps and all the young people are on KTMs and Ducatis. All the old guys are riding GS.
No offense to Paul and Voni, but the 310 does not have enough motor for me....
A 22 year-old bike... spot-on the money!
Rinty
New member
I rode 650's (Versys / GSPD) for a couple of summers, and they were just fine, even in the high passes of the Rockies.
Visian
look out!!!
Hell, you don’t even know how click a button to do a proper quote. Howizzit that you can even ride?
My 33 year-old R80G/SPD+ would eat your ass alive in the twisties!
jconway607
JohnWC
Until I got Punkin’ I had forgotten how much fun it is to ride a smaller lighter bike,
I realize that we are all a bunch of old farts here,
No offense to Paul and Voni, but the 310 does not have enough motor for me....
A 22 year-old bike... spot-on the money!
That is one beautiful bike. It always seemed like a perfect design. I did get a sense they were a bit difficult to work on, but that's a minor point. I think the F650s are getting to be pretty hard to find, certainly in that nice condition. I'm not sure I would agree that the 310 is lacking in power, although I don't own one. They seem to the closest thing to the older F bikes that you can buy new. I was pleasantly surprised to see that they are bigger in the showroom than they look on BMW's site.
Sorry for the jumbled up quotes. I just kept the ones I liked best. Keep Punkin waxed up!
BMW has a real gap in it line up now. A 400-450lb wet tourer. The new F850s are HEAVY (talll too). very close to the R1250s in weight.
I moved from 20+ years on RTs to a R1200RS 2015. 30 or 40 lbs lighter and much lower C of G due to smaller/lower gas tank. All other the features/ performance is the same (better in my opinion).
I still use my road bike for dirt roads as needed on my rides...they did it just fine 30 years ago be for the marketeers came up with the GS look...I find they still do it fine.
I will be looking closely to see if KTM comes up with a 790GT ( extending the 790 line)??? If they do that may very well meet my needs and be my next bike as I do NOT want or need the tallness of their GS type bikes. (harder to pick up a tall bike ever if the weigh the same as a road bike)
ps I love my KTM 390...what a hoot feels like a feather!
hope to ride till I drop!
I moved from 20+ years on RTs to a R1200RS 2015. 30 or 40 lbs lighter and much lower C of G due to smaller/lower gas tank. All other the features/ performance is the same (better in my opinion).
I still use my road bike for dirt roads as needed on my rides...they did it just fine 30 years ago be for the marketeers came up with the GS look...I find they still do it fine.
I will be looking closely to see if KTM comes up with a 790GT ( extending the 790 line)??? If they do that may very well meet my needs and be my next bike as I do NOT want or need the tallness of their GS type bikes. (harder to pick up a tall bike ever if the weigh the same as a road bike)
ps I love my KTM 390...what a hoot feels like a feather!
hope to ride till I drop!
Visian
look out!!!
Well, little Punkin’ is more of a 10-footer bike.
It was fairly inexpensive, but the previous owner dropped it, rashed the tank and chose to rattle can it. The new body parts are still available but cost more than the bike is worth!I bought it to see if I would like a smaller bike and was certainly surprised at its competence! I’ve had my eye on them ever since Helge Pedersen rode them all over creation. I use it mainly to ride down the mountain to run errands, but find that is my preference these days for putt-putting around the mountains.
I also have an Xchallenge which weighs even less... and basically the same motor. Excellent dual sport bike. I really like how BMW spec’s out a Rotax engine... both bikes run exceptionally well and that engine is known to run forever.
They are, as you note, not as easy to work on as real BMWs... valve adjustments are much more involved, but rarely needed. Well, I should say BMWs sold before 2010. I would be afraid to work on the new ones, way too complicated!
Visian
look out!!!
If KTM made a dirt-oriented version of that I would certainly own one.
And... you are absolutely correct about the hole in BMWs product line.... hence my Honda CB500X ... I just can’t say enough good about that bike.
And which manufacturer makes one of these? My sport bike weighs 418 lb fueled and there is no way a touring bike is going to get close to that number.
