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Thread: Bosch XR7LDC spark plugs - different flavors?

  1. #16
    Mehrten
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    Back to oil for a sec...

    Per a bottle of BMW Motorrad Advantec Pro SAE 15W-50 Original BMW Engine Oil it is API SM, JASO MA2.

    Per a bottle of BMW Motorrad Advantec Ultimate SAE 5W-40 Original BMW Engine Oil it is API SN, JASO MA2.

    Per a bottle of Original BMW Performance Engine Oil SAE 20W50 P/N 07 51 0 039 638 it is API SG, JASO MA-2.

    Next...

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mehrten View Post
    Back to oil for a sec...

    Per a bottle of BMW Motorrad Advantec Pro SAE 15W-50 Original BMW Engine Oil it is API SM, JASO MA2.

    Per a bottle of BMW Motorrad Advantec Ultimate SAE 5W-40 Original BMW Engine Oil it is API SN, JASO MA2.

    Per a bottle of Original BMW Performance Engine Oil SAE 20W50 P/N 07 51 0 039 638 it is API SG, JASO MA-2.

    Next...
    And like too many things, the API (US) ratings have become somewhat irrelevant while the JASO (Japan) ratings are the real deal to look for. The API myth that later ratings exceed and are better than prior ratings was a cave-in to the automakers to limit the need for replacement catalytic converters during the required 7 year warranty period.

    Thus BMW's rebellion when they said SJ is not better - it is worse - so stick with SG rated oils. The API today has about as much credibility as the Cattlemen's Association has to Vegans.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    Oil specs have been a bit of a mess for some time now. Most bikes have a viscosity chart in their owner's manual, which mostly just adds confusion because it allows several different ranges. But then there's BMW's "Nothing beyond SJ" service bulletin which is still in effect for those bikes, and then there are owners' manuals that conflicted with that bulletin (the manual was declared to be in error at the time), and the single spec in the RSD which matches whatever BMW is selling at the time (may or may not comply with the bulletin), and who knows what the latest post-RSD system is specifying. IIRC the bulletin didn't really get to the heart of the issue which was that only the Energy Conserving viscosities were even affected by the reduced additive package that BMW was concerned about, and the common viscosities at the time weren't EC anyway.
    So... specs are specs and recommendations are recommendations and... If the OEM motorcycle company is "recommending" whatever its latest-greatest oil happens to be, and an OEM dealership says they are using that oil... what's a body to do? Seems to me that using the 'recommended' lubricant couldn't hurt, even if it's wildly expensive.

    One thing's for sure: that 'recommended' $15+ per liter BMW Advantec Pro 15W-50 is definitely beyond SJ! It is SM, as mehrten noted above.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    And like too many things, the API (US) ratings have become somewhat irrelevant while the JASO (Japan) ratings are the real deal to look for.
    So if that's true, for an older bike like my '04 K12GT, is JASO MA2 better or worse?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mehrten View Post
    Back to plugs for a second...

    I found my files on the NGK KR9CI called for in our past 2008 K1200GT.

    The KR9CI plugs were $83.20 for a set of 4. Wow!

    I went to the NGK site and the KR9CI plugs were not listed. I called and talked to a rep and asked why.

    The KR9CI was a BMW spec'ed plug and at that time was only sold through BMW dealers.

    He sent me the attached cross reference to one of their NGK racing plugs, a DCPR9EIX.

    I bought a set of DCPR9EIX plugs from SparkPlugs.com for $31.32.

    That was a significant saving and they were identical to the KR9CI plugs.

    The KR9CI plugs are now sold everywhere for a much better price.

    Sounds similar, in terms of price savings, to my experience with the XR7LDC plugs.

    From BMW: $74.52 for a set of 4
    Online: $25.00 for a set of 4

    Only difference: green bands vs blue bands. But then, that's not even different, anymore - per Anton, above. Hence my original question...

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by del59803518_coreyd View Post
    Sounds similar, in terms of price savings, to my experience with the XR7LDC plugs.

    From BMW: $74.52 for a set of 4
    Online: $25.00 for a set of 4

    Only difference: green bands vs blue bands. But then, that's not even different, anymore - per Anton, above. Hence my original question...
    Many old time owners of K1200RS (like me) and K1200LT having over 100,000 mile have used various sources to buy XR7LDC cheaper than dealer's price. In some cases we got "made in India" - other cases it was "made in Brazil". At the BMW dealers, at a high price, they use to be "made in Germany" for a long time anyway - NOT always the case now.

    Many had their K1200 since 1999 (first year of K1200LT) or 1997 (1st year of K1200RS in Europe): those like me who have done all their maintenance did found out that the "made in India" or the "made in Brazil" appear to wear their electrodes a fit faster , so we just change them a bit earlier (non scientific , but clearly some improvement after change). The "made in Germany" could last at least 15,000 miles or more (this is 25% more than recommended Schedule). However by the recommended schedule of 12,000 miles, the other (India, Brazil) were pretty much done.

    No big deal really - you save $US 50 on a set and you change them at around 12,000 miles depending on usage (lots of short ride , city -vs- highway....)

    Keep in mind BOSCH is a large corporation with various plants and agency all over the world. The market for this specific XR7LDC is quite small and it does not fit any car (or so few that I could not find it). So why would they continue to produce them "in Germany" if the remaining market is mainly for older K1200 "brick-engine" models (last production year of K1200LT was 2009 and was in 2005 for K1200RS/GT).
    JEAN
    Montreal (CANADA)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Current: K1200RS (2002) with 96,000 miles (155,000 KM)

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by myK1200rs View Post
    Many old time owners of K1200RS (like me) and K1200LT having over 100,000 mile have used various sources to buy XR7LDC cheaper than dealer's price. In some cases we got "made in India" - other cases it was "made in Brazil". At the BMW dealers, at a high price, they use to be "made in Germany" for a long time anyway - NOT always the case now.

    Many had their K1200 since 1999 (first year of K1200LT) or 1997 (1st year of K1200RS in Europe): those like me who have done all their maintenance did found out that the "made in India" or the "made in Brazil" appear to wear their electrodes a fit faster , so we just change them a bit earlier (non scientific , but clearly some improvement after change). The "made in Germany" could last at least 15,000 miles or more (this is 25% more than recommended Schedule). However by the recommended schedule of 12,000 miles, the other (India, Brazil) were pretty much done.

    No big deal really - you save $US 50 on a set and you change them at around 12,000 miles depending on usage (lots of short ride , city -vs- highway....)

    Keep in mind BOSCH is a large corporation with various plants and agency all over the world. The market for this specific XR7LDC is quite small and it does not fit any car (or so few that I could not find it). So why would they continue to produce them "in Germany" if the remaining market is mainly for older K1200 "brick-engine" models (last production year of K1200LT was 2009 and was in 2005 for K1200RS/GT).

    Jean, thanks for the historical perspective. That all makes a lot of sense! The US isn't the only advanced country that long ago outsourced a lot of manufacturing to cheaper markets. Makes total sense that originally Bosch would make a state-of-the-art part, like a newfangled plug, in Germany, then 'overseas' it. As you say, it has a very small application space but still has to sell for relatively little. I'd be amazed if you could find ANY of these Bosch plugs still made in Germany!

    Thanks also for the insight about the change-out interval. Interesting how the 'advanced' countries can still make metals (e.g., plug electrodes - which AFAIK are fairly sophisticated metallurgy) that are often superior to the 'identical' alloy made in technologically developing countries. Your experience with the German-made plugs is a real testament to that.

    Cheers,

    Corey

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