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Thread: Starter or Battery Redux

  1. #16
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
    For anyone interested, here's my discharge network of three 6 ohm resistors and an sad pigtail, which creates a 4 ohm network, which yields a 5C (3 amp) discharge current. It gets hot!

    Photo not uploading yet
    Had similar issues yesterday while answering a post with a lot of questions. Uploading a photo was taking a very long time and it finally just hung. I lost a half hour of post and photos and just gave up. It was a fairly large photo so maybe the system won't allow that but the exit was not graceful and nothing in the cache to return to was disappointing.

    I've never done the mod on my oilhead alternator to properly charge the Odyssey battery but whenever I return home from a ride I always attach my Odyssey specific charger and top it off. It seems to work OK but I should run a capacity test as you are doing and see where it's at. For my airheads I install a digital regulator that has a trimpot allowing me to set the charge voltage. I run them around 14.5 but I believe 14.7 is optimal to keep them fully charged and prevent sulfation. I worry a bit about running those old alternators with the fragile rotors too hard.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  2. #17
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    It was a fairly large photo so maybe the system won't allow that
    Dollars to donuts that's the issue. Always good to resize pictures down to the 1-2Mb range before trying to upload. More bytes in the picture doesn't make it any better to see on the computer monitor. After a certain size, it's all a waste of time...as you found out!
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
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  3. #18
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Dollars to donuts that's the issue. Always good to resize pictures down to the 1-2Mb range before trying to upload. More bytes in the picture doesn't make it any better to see on the computer monitor. After a certain size, it's all a waste of time...as you found out!
    Thanks. I resized and went back and added the picture.

  4. #19
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    I just finished the second discharge. It took 5 hours and 20 minutes and yielded 15.3 Ah, which is around 95% capacity.

    There was another change too after the first discharge cycle, when I attached my programmable power supply (set at 14.8V) the current started at 4.5 amps, and climbed to 5.5 amps in the first hour. The battery then charged overnight. After the second discharge cycle, when the power supply was attached, the charging current was about 9.5 amps right away and stayed there for a couple minutes and is now slowing coming down. It seems a good sign based on Odysseys data which says to charge it correctly you need to charge with a minimum 6 amp supply.

    The battery will now recharge for the rest of the day.

  5. #20
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Interesting side development ...

    I've been unable to get the GS-911 to record values fast enough since I first discharged the battery. Hexcode processed a trouble ticket for me but said they couldn't duplicate it. Further study of the data showed that every time I pressed the start button, there was a 3 second delay from the Motronic so I couldn't see the transient voltage dip during the first second.

    This morning I realized why that might be happening. I have been discharging the battery while installed in the bike. The voltage has dipped to 10V twice, and the first time it reached 9.54V for several minutes before I got back to check. That was enough to reset the Motronic apparently, and I never reregistered the throttle (key on, rotate the throttle twice, key off). Apparently, without the key on/rotate/key off after disconnecting the battery, the Motronic does some housekeeping every time the starter button is pressed and it keeps doing that until the throttle is reregistered.

    After resetting the Motronic and reregistering the throttle, the GS-911 now logs at full speed, even during the startup transient.

    On the third start of the day (while I figured out the GS-911 problem) the 300 mS transient voltage was 9.54 volts. Much better than the 8.05V recorded at the start of this project. However, since it was the third start of the day, I don't think we can rely on the 9.54V data point.

    The battery is now discharging for the third time, and I will reregister the throttle before my next test!

  6. #21
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Thank you Roger. Your posts are actually valuable.

    I use them in my morning service meetings.
    1997 R1100RT, 1981 KZ 440 LTD, R80RT, R90/6 sidecar, K1100RS,1983 K100RS (Cafe now)

    “The major civilizing force in the world is not religion, it is sex.”

  7. #22
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    1st discharge: 12.4 Ah, 78% capacity, 4 hours 30 minutes
    2nd discharge: 14.8 Ah, 92% capacity, 5:20
    3rd discharge: 14.8 Ah, 92% capacity, 5:20

    The third discharge cycle was just the same as the second. I may have reached maximum reconditioning. At 92% capacity, there's still more life in this battery according to Odyssey, who says to replace at 80%.

    I wanted to get out for a ride so after the third discharge the battery I set the charger for a 10 amp rate for an hour. To my surprise with only a 60% charge, it fired quickly with no ABS error. Tomorrow morning, I'll run a cold start test with the GS-911 and see what the battery drop is like compared to pre-conditioning.

  8. #23
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    After three discharge/recharge cycles following Odyssey's instructions for how to desulfate the PC680 in order to regain its lost capacity, the GS-911 Wifi was used to collect a start-up voltage data set this morning. In its fastest mode, the GS-911 captures battery voltage and RPM data every 325 mS (about three samples per second), something that can't be done with ordinary shop tools or a regular DVM.

    My R1150GS now starts in under a second after an overnight cool-down period, and the minimum transient voltage is about 10V, up from 8V prior to reconditioning. Battery capacity improved about 20%, increasing to 92%, compared to 78% prior to reconditioning. The ABS no longer logs an error at start-up, compared to several errors before. The steady state cranking voltage (fuel pump relay removed) has improved about a quarter volt, now at about 10.6V compared to 10.3 V before.

    The main lesson learned here (as I did on the RT) is that it's not too hard to damage the PC680 by improperly charging it. Even with a boosted voltage regulator, this battery was sulfated by a non-approved charger, which ran only 6 hours per week, for about 6 months.

    All in all, the results look good, a success. It'll be interesting to see how many more years I get from this battery. In the future, since the PC680 has a low self-discharge rate, I'm thinking that I'll remove the battery for the winter, use no battery maintainer, and recharge it when the bike comes out of storage.

    Below are the before and after charts showing the significantly improved voltage response to starting.

    Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 9.17.02 AM.png

    Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 9.17.33 AM.png

  9. #24
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Roger, after all this, what battery maintainer would work the best for the PC680 if an owner wanted to just hook up a battery for the off-season and “catch it in the spring”?
    OM
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  10. #25
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Gary, I’m not sure which one is best. I’d look over the specs and make sure the maintenance voltage is 13.7 +/-. Odyssey has a list of approved chargers on their site.

  11. #26
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Is there a max current specified for recharging Roger? Just wondering if current limiting should be applied when doing constant voltage charging. Your posts have me thinking about a winter maintenance project for my Odyssey batteries.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  12. #27
    Left Coast Rider
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    You guys and your Oddity (oops, Odyssey) batteries. :-)

    I've run cheap and unsophisticated AGM batteries for the last 10 years, have never had an issue, and the one I put in 9 years ago is still going strong. Somehow, I feel diminished in the presence of all this high-end info - but my wallet is thicker!

    Just kidding about feeling diminished. Lots of good information for those who can use it, guys.

  13. #28
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    You guys and your Oddity (oops, Odyssey) batteries. :-)

    I've run cheap and unsophisticated AGM batteries for the last 10 years, have never had an issue, and the one I put in 9 years ago is still going strong. Somehow, I feel diminished in the presence of all this high-end info - but my wallet is thicker!

    Just kidding about feeling diminished. Lots of good information for those who can use it, guys.
    Methinks you just jinxed yourself
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
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  14. #29
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    You guys and your Oddity (oops, Odyssey) batteries. :-)

    I've run cheap and unsophisticated AGM batteries for the last 10 years, have never had an issue, and the one I put in 9 years ago is still going strong. Somehow, I feel diminished in the presence of all this high-end info - but my wallet is thicker!

    Just kidding about feeling diminished. Lots of good information for those who can use it, guys.
    First Odyssey I bought was in June 2010. It's still in the RT so over 9 years now. Second one installed in my G/S in 2012 and also still in the bike. So pretty good luck so far but I must admit the Panasonic SLA in my RS lasted over 10 years. I bought another just like it in 2017 and installed it before a cross country ride to PA and back but the old battery is now running my shed winch and still works perfectly. Now that a digital voltage regulator for airheads is available and inexpensive it makes running an Odyssey at the correct charging voltage really easy. These are really tough mil spec batteries and are ideal for bikes.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  15. #30
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Methinks you just jinxed yourself
    OM
    I was touching wood (which negates any jinxing effect) while I typed that posting.

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