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Thread: Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

  1. #61
    Addicted to curves azgman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyrt4me View Post
    Mine just had 'updated' cams put in due to failure at 33k miles. Engine clatter started to worsen after a couple days, out of nowhere. Worse part, (dealer un-named), the nasty black metallic ridden oil was never changed and returned to me low, without moisture even on the site glass after an hour on the center stand upon arriving home 70 miles later. Let's just say there are other issues at hand
    Since I live in AZ, I'd like to know what dealer returned you your bike in this condition. PM if you would like.
    MOA #107139
    RA #28511

  2. #62
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azgman View Post
    Since I live in AZ, I'd like to know what dealer returned you your bike in this condition. PM if you would like.
    I would want to know if I lived there.

    Jim of JVB Productions went through a similar thing with a friends bike. Just had a major service with valve checks and a very short mileage later the guy notices a slight loss of power but nothing huge. Jim pulled the cover and saw cam lobes wore off. Now the mileage was so little it was hard to believe it was not there at valve checks, and that is the question did the guys even check them? That dealer bent over backwards to make that guy whole again.

    It is what keeps me from dealer service and of course the cost.

    So easy for a dealer to charge you 160 dollars for cylinder head gaskets and labor to check your valves and never touch them. I mean after all BMW's never need their valves adjusted just ask people that is what they tell you. My GS has 4 new exhaust shims in the exhaust side as all 4 were tight from 69 miles, 600, miles, 6000 miles and I changed them at 12,000 and set them in the middle of the range.

    In my 30+ cam checks I did notice the GS/GSA are as a rule set tighter then RT's that I did were.

    At any rate I hope the guy PM's you the dealers name so you can be aware. I would not want to take my bike in for service if this is how the shop works. That said I have no clue how fast hardening can flake. I would think that could be very few miles of those cam shafts spinning so it may not be the dealer. I always ran a finger nail over all lobes on the cam checks and I never felt a ridge in any of them. I would assume on valve checks the dealer tech would also, but that depends if they did the work or ripped the guy off and in this case at the very least he had very shoddy work performed from that dealer.
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  3. #63
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    azgman PM'd you


    So here's the quick rundown if anyone's interested:

    The camshafts were immaculate at the 24k mile service. At 33k a few weeks ago, I began to notice a valve train tick that worsened the next day. That next day I was able to clearly hear it from the RH cylinder head. I removed all my protection bars and cylinder head covers for inspection, that is when I found the above. There was well over a MM of clearance between the worn lobe and the worn follower of the RF exh cam lobe. All cams had scoring and wear.

    That is when I safely bubble wrapped and zipped tied my Clearwater lights to the radiators and had it towed to the dealer. I even only take it to the dealer I bought it from as the closest one to me can't even replace a tire properly. I nicely left my bars off and labeled everything to be cautious about as there is about 10 grand of goodies on here.

    As one who speaks fluent dealer, and has spent 10+ years in car dealerships, I was already aware of all the miscomunications and lack of care that take place in these large establishments. I was VERY clear with the advisor on everything I expected. I also explained to them that this was my only current transportation temporarily, as I am between vehicles. (Couldn't of happened at a better time of coarse as it does ) I advised him to keep me completely updated on the status and pick up date, as I will be bumming rides and ubering until then. He dropped the ball and never called me by the weekend as requested, to which he was OFF.
    The next day (Sunday) I recieved a call that parts were in and bike will be completed Monday for sure. I specifically told him that if there was any reason at all that the bike may not be done, to let me know, as I will have to bum a ride up there and wait around ahead of time after I get off work.

    I arrived there early after work on Monday and sat around the dealer hanging out, never bothered the advisor, never was a pest, no rush, just hangin out. I get a call on my phone from the advisor an hour before close as I'm sitting on the couch in front of him in the waiting area to tell me that everything is going good, but the bike may not be done tonight.

    I told him that probably won't be good as I will then have to borrow your couch for the night, and I'm sitting right in front of you. He peeked over his monitor, and frantically went to talk to the tech. He came back saying it was for sure going to be done tonight and that he didn't know I was going to be there. (2nd time not listening to a darn word I told him).

    At this point I'm cool as a cucumber but am now expecting trouble as I feel they are going to rush the repair at the end of the night. All could have been avoided with proper Communication.

    Bike gets done close to closing time, I ride home.
    70 miles later I arrive home and immediately pop it up on the center stand to double check the work. NO REGISTER ON THE SIGHT GLASS AT ALL.

    I took so many pictures of this crap it makes my blood boil every time I look at them. The oil was a 1/2 qt. Low, black with EXTREMELY HEAVY metallic contamination, oil filter marked and not changed, scoring and pitting on the sprocket teeth( which I notified them of initially). I've saved everything and finished a report of the entire event. Even took macro pics of engine internals to show the long term damage this has caused.

    I frankly don't trust the bike now as before. I did not spend a VERY METICULOUS two years of care and maintenance all to be destroyed by manufacture defects & dealer negligence.

    I am going to allow them to remedy a solution to me before contacting BMW. I don't trust an engine replacement either as they couldn't even put fresh oil and a filter in the damn thing. Not the best way to break in new 'updated' engine internals.

    So being the Master Tech I am, and having plenty of oil and filters on demand. I changed everything myself and gathered all my evidence of negligence. Thanks for listening, Rant over.
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  4. #64
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    This is one sad story. What a disaster. The bottom of the oil pan must be filled with metal particles, or perhaps chunks. I hope it works out. BMW has some explaining to do.

  5. #65
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    Complain to NHTSA

    I've been reading with interest about the cam-wear issues with the wethead engine as I have a 2015 RT. It does not seem that anyone has used the NHTSA complaint process. Perhaps this is something which members should begin to consider.

    By way of recent history, the problems with some K1600 transmissions resulted in safety issues and resulted in a recall. If a safety issue results from riding a bike on which the cams fail then the failure should be reported to the NHTSA.

    In the recall world, a safety issue on a motorcycle is something which could lead to a crash. On the K1600 transmission issue, the two reported events were the "blocking" of the rear wheel, which I think means it locked up. One rider was able to stop, but one went down (minor injuries).

    I'd encourage those with the issue to contact the NHTSA if they've experienced (not feared in the future) a safety issue because of the cam wear.

    Here's the URL: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
    Last edited by ExGMan; 02-14-2020 at 12:56 PM.
    John Gamel - BMW MOA Consumer Liaison
    2015 Ebony Metallic R1200RT
    MOA #153274
    "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Pogo/via Walt Kelly

  6. #66
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    Thanks for the tip ExGman, that is an important step I will be sure to explore.

    I've changed the oil again at 250 miles (after the repair) and still looks bad, lots of metallic debris inside. Even brass looking material which is alarming me.

    Keeping it all in glass containers so I can just sit there in my garage and stare at it.

  7. #67
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExGMan View Post
    I've been reading with interest about the cam-wear issues with the wethead engine as I have a 2015 RT. It does not seem that anyone has used the NHTSA complaint process. Perhaps this is something which members should begin to consider.
    Not sure the NHTSA would see this as safety issue.
    I have not heard of any cases of the worn cams causing a accident.

    The K1200S had cam chain tensioner problems causing the cam chain to jump a tooth and in some cases destroying the head. This was not a recall.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  8. #68
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Not sure the NHTSA would see this as safety issue.
    I have not heard of any cases of the worn cams causing a accident.
    Agreed Lee. At this point, it's probably not a safety issue, but: 1) if these parts start to fail catastrophically while riding, and 2) any injuries result, then 3) reports should be made to NHTSA.
    John Gamel - BMW MOA Consumer Liaison
    2015 Ebony Metallic R1200RT
    MOA #153274
    "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Pogo/via Walt Kelly

  9. #69

    2015 RT 37k miles

    Just done 12k valve check Lh side. Noticed exhaust cams look almost new. Intakes show a wear line maybe .0005 tops. Clearances exhaust bang on low end, intake tight at .002 (sorry biut units). I am thinking this is thcause of the wear. I was surprised since I have read so many posts where the clearances were good question is why are mine so tight? What is the serviceable wear on a cam lobe, I think I am ok to run as is. Shims ordered and I will look at the right side soon.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by usablue View Post
    Just done 12k valve check Lh side. Noticed exhaust cams look almost new. Intakes show a wear line maybe .0005 tops. Clearances exhaust bang on low end, intake tight at .002 (sorry biut units). I am thinking this is thcause of the wear. I was surprised since I have read so many posts where the clearances were good question is why are mine so tight? What is the serviceable wear on a cam lobe, I think I am ok to run as is. Shims ordered and I will look at the right side soon.
    Just a reminder that abnormal cam lobe wear will not show up during a normal clearance check because the pressure is off on the back side opposite the lobe nose.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  11. #71

    2018 Cams

    My 2018 with 7200 miles started making a tic/knock sound. Took it to the dealer and as soon as they heard it they got a concerned look. They kept the bike and today I got the word that the camshafts on the right side need to be replaced. All will be covered under warranty. I never noticed a lack of power.

  12. #72

    Fabes-bad camshaft

    I bought a new 2019 R1250rt last august. At the 500 mile checkup an engine warning light came on and they said it was a left crank sensor warning. On a long trip several days after the checkup the warning light came on several different times and even went into limp home mode once. Had it checked at another bmw dealer during my trip and they couldn't diagnose the problem. This spring I'm out in arizona on a trip and warning light comes on again and take it to a dealer two times and they finally diagnosed a bad cam. There are no new cams in the USA and they said it will take approximately 4 weeks to get one from Germany! I'm currently dealing with BMW customer relations and requesting they either give me a loaner bike, get the new cam here much quicker than 4 weeks, or enact the lemon law and give me a new replacement bike. I've been dealing with the same issue since the 500 mile mark and have had it in a bmw shop numerous times for the same issue. Any recommendations on dealing with BMW customer relations would be greatly appreciated. Plus I am out in arizona for a month to ride and now my new bike is out of commission.
    .

  13. #73

    Fabes-bad camshaft

    Quote Originally Posted by dlong0609 View Post
    I have a 2019 R1250rt with a bad camshaft which started acting up at 500 miles. It's in the shop now for the 4th time for the same issue and they say it will take 4 weeks to get the new cam from Germany. I'm dealing with customer relations now trying to either get a loaner bike, new replacement bike, or some solution so that I won't be without a bike for a month. I'm also on vacation for 3 weeks out in arizona. Any advice on dealing with customer relations would be appreciated.

  14. #74
    Registered User pappy35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98879 View Post
    I have a 2019 R1250rt with a bad camshaft which started acting up at 500 miles. It's in the shop now for the 4th time for the same issue and they say it will take 4 weeks to get the new cam from Germany. I'm dealing with customer relations now trying to either get a loaner bike, new replacement bike, or some solution so that I won't be without a bike for a month. I'm also on vacation for 3 weeks out in arizona. Any advice on dealing with customer relations would be appreciated.
    Lemon Law? I don't recall the criteria but it sounds like something you can apply here, even if it's just a threat.
    '13 R1200RT 90th Anniversary Edition

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by blueracer791 View Post
    My 2018 with 7200 miles started making a tic/knock sound. Took it to the dealer and as soon as they heard it they got a concerned look. They kept the bike and today I got the word that the camshafts on the right side need to be replaced. All will be covered under warranty. I never noticed a lack of power.
    How long are they saying it will take to get your bike fixed? They just diagnosed my 2019 R1250rt with a bad camshaft and said there are no new camshafts in the USA and it will take about 4 weeks to get the parts from germany!

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