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Thread: Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

  1. #16
    Registered User cap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    This one I saw from JVB Productions had a 1/4" of each lobe gone only the width of the follower, the original shape of the lobe was there on each end as a thin slice, and the owner said he really had not noticed a power difference?
    There are 4 valves per cylinder. So, if one valve is not opening, and the cam is otherwise rotating smoothly, then the change in performance would be subtle. At high RPM, the engine would not be flowing as much air, so the peak power would decline. Assuming the fuel injection system measures the air mass flow rate and adjusts the fuel accordingly, then the engine would be running pretty well.

    How many of us use high RPMs and high power a lot? Especially since this condition develops gradually, it will be difficult to notice.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    This one I saw from JVB Productions had a 1/4" of each lobe gone only the width of the follower, the original shape of the lobe was there on each end as a thin slice, and the owner said he really had not noticed a power difference?

    Attachment 75034
    Did they have a mileage associated with this wear?

    - Austin

  3. #18
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by passedetp View Post
    Did they have a mileage associated with this wear?

    - Austin
    I think the 24K service had just been done on it not too long before this was found.

    Again this is not anything to do with mileage at all. It is luck of the draw. How deep the hardening goes, how even it has penetrated the metal, how much of it is ground off during the grinding and polishing of the cam lobe profile.

    So no telling or warning or knowing you just need to inspect them.

    Now I would think everyone is doing a 12K valve check so that would be a visual inspection for most. Me I check cam timing and valves every 6K just because I enjoy it and can.

    The thing is even every 6K this could happen in a very short period of time so there is no sense in worrying over it. The sky is not falling and I believe in my heart if you loose a cam lobe BMW will supply new ones. However if it happens to me it will be the last BMW for me and it would be gone once repaired.

    As far as not noticing a loss in power I can see if your not on it, and as long as one lobe is good. However I ride my bike pretty hard and into the high rpms a lot. I would hope I would notice but who knows?
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  4. #19
    Registered User cap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    As far as not noticing a loss in power I can see if your not on it, and as long as one lobe is good. However I ride my bike pretty hard and into the high rpms a lot. I would hope I would notice but who knows?
    Lee, I think the other thing that might be noticeable, especially at high load, is an imbalance between cylinders. That is, if only one cam lobe is bad, then one cylinder will be making full power, and the other will be reduced. So, I can imagine that this would induce some extra vibration.

    Of course, we boxers owners are accustomed to high vibrations, so again it might be difficult to notice.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    However if it happens to me it will be the last BMW for me and it would be gone once repaired.
    I'm with you on this. In this era it is preposterous that their QC was insufficient to identify sourced parts with this level of criticality, and at the cost of these motorcycles. Beside flashy technology which we enjoy they need to get ALL of the basics right first, and need to be leaders in this area. There's just no excuse for this nowadays.

  6. #21
    Addicted to curves azgman's Avatar
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    No "high volume" manufacturer does 100% inspection and even if they did you could only do a non-destructive inspection. In addition, BMW contracts out most of its parts manufacture which means catching bad parts is often pushed down to the supplier, so there is always a chance that a bad batch of parts slips through.
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  7. #22
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azgman View Post
    No "high volume" manufacturer does 100% inspection and even if they did you could only do a non-destructive inspection. In addition, BMW contracts out most of its parts manufacture which means catching bad parts is often pushed down to the supplier, so there is always a chance that a bad batch of parts slips through.
    I guess I have to ask and your point is?

    I think we all get that for sure.

    But we get a constant "good will" "fix" that gives us new parts that may or may not be from the same batch, and we get to pay our dealer to put it in.

    Or in some cases, like stators, no help at all even when a bolt was found loose and very clearly showed what took out one stator recently.

    And these little "buggy" things like water pumps on early wetheads my 15 RT included, switchgear on the same year, and some rear brake master cylinders reported on GS/GSA, shaft drives, and now soft cams, and of course the infamous final drive that I think has been put to bed.

    And I will not even get into the 17 or 18 cam timings that were off out of 31 bikes or so that were checked and 20 + of those needed the cam positione sensor set correctly.

    So I think we all get it but most places I worked pulled random samples. I would think for the price we pay we should be getting better quality control.

    At least, when these issues are found and known, stop making this "Good Will" BS and fix the mistake.

    And we in the USA are the "small" market. I wish I knew other languages for other forums. I do a UK Forum just to see how these bikes do in places where there are a lot more BMW motorcycles on the roads then here in the USA.

    I loved my LT, RT, and dearly love my GS more then those but if I suffer from one of these known forms of failure I will be done with BMW.

    Of course if I loose my FD at say 160,000 like a person I know did on his 15 RT, and his drive shaft at 168,000, then I wont look for any help
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by azgman View Post
    No "high volume" manufacturer does 100% inspection and even if they did you could only do a non-destructive inspection. In addition, BMW contracts out most of its parts manufacture which means catching bad parts is often pushed down to the supplier, so there is always a chance that a bad batch of parts slips through.
    I wouldn't expect doing 100% inspection for camshafts but I would expect a program of randomized destructive inspections or whatever is required tied to source batches etc according to some smart algorithm. What's weird about this issue w/ cam lobes is that it very apparently spans the full lifespan of wetheads and I guess more. It's not like it was one bad batch presumably, or maybe it was I don't know. We also have to factor in the true cost of their Good Will repairs against what a better QC program might cost. Compared to their competitors, how does BMW stack up against other brands of high end motorcycles?

  9. #24
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncpbmw1953 View Post
    What's weird about this issue w/ cam lobes is that it very apparently spans the full lifespan of wetheads
    I also find it puzzling to still hear about bad cams in the Wetheads.
    When we purchased our 2016 R1200RS bikes the Tech told me to keep an eye on the cam lobs when doing valve checks.
    He mentioned the shop had replaced cams on a few Wethead bikes.
    If I remember correctly the cams were replaced on early Wetheads.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  10. #25
    Addicted to curves azgman's Avatar
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    My post was just to say that expecting zero defects is not possible (what I thought a prior post was eluding to). I am with you with regards to expecting a premium product for the premium price we have paid for a BMW. I'm just not going to stress about it. I am going to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts!
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  11. #26
    If every time a defect showed up I swore off that manufacturer and chose to flee to another I would soon be a pedestrian. The test is not what got screwed up. The test is how did the manufacturer dealwith the issue and was it fair to the consumer. So far I have been treated fairly every time there was a defect in parts or workmanship. Did I like it. NO. Wast it fair. YES.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by azgman View Post
    My post was just to say that expecting zero defects is not possible (what I thought a prior post was eluding to). I am with you with regards to expecting a premium product for the premium price we have paid for a BMW. I'm just not going to stress about it. I am going to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts!
    I'm not stressing either I'm just enjoying the hell out of it while lasts, kind of like the rest of life if you're lucky!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    If every time a defect showed up I swore off that manufacturer and chose to flee to another I would soon be a pedestrian. The test is not what got screwed up. The test is how did the manufacturer dealwith the issue and was it fair to the consumer. So far I have been treated fairly every time there was a defect in parts or workmanship. Did I like it. NO. Wast it fair. YES.
    Those are fine points but all else being equal having less defects in the first place is far more desirable. I know Consumer Reports gives BMW the worst possible rating under the heading of Cost of Maintenance and Repairs against the other major brands. If that's valid then indeed they need to up their game in the reliability department.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncpbmw1953 View Post
    Those are fine points but all else being equal having less defects in the first place is far more desirable. I know Consumer Reports gives BMW the worst possible rating under the heading of Cost of Maintenance and Repairs against the other major brands. If that's valid then indeed they need to up their game in the reliability department.
    Possibly. But the flip side of the argument is covered in the two articles I’ve linked below—just substitute “BMW Motorrad” for “Range Rover” and it falls right into place. An awful lot of the people bitchin’, moanin’, and whinin’ about BMW are repeat buyers, often multiple time repeat buyers...

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...-and-jd-power/

    https://dougdemuro.kinja.com/here-s-...tin-1575245254



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  15. #30
    Registered User jandhumphreyme's Avatar
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    I'll be interested to see how this camshaft thing plays out, not very inspiring, however if I'm not wrong there are still a lot of very high mileage wetheads out there with no issues, yes?

    I purchased a 2011 R1200r new in January of 2013 and put it into service that summer. That spring I took a week long trip to Duluth and fell in love. In 2016, six months after the warranty ran out and only 26k miles I developed a leak in the transmission input shaft seal and counterbalancer shaft seal ruined a planned vacation. I was disappointed to say the least. I bought a repair manual, opened her up, put in new seals and clutch, buttoned her back up and 27k miles later she runs better than new. Four weeks ago now I purchased a 2018 R1200RT 458 miles lightly used for a good price, foolishly I did not check out the this forum to see what the reported problems have been, but I can tell you the 650 mile trip from the dealership where I purchased the bike to home were great, I fell in love again. So, given that, if a (camshaft, alternator, water pump) wears out, I guess I'll suck it up, buy a manual, and change it myself, and get back out on the road. Will I be pissed off, yes. Will I be disappointed, yes. The things we do for love.
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