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Thread: Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

  1. #241
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alegerlotz View Post
    I'm not saying that this thing isn't real, and believe me, every time I pop open valve covers, I inspect my cams closely to see whether or not there is abnormal wear. IMO BMW should be covering this issue 100% for bikes that encounter this issue because it is a manufacturing flaw.

    That being said, the guy asking the question was considering not looking at a low mileage bike because of this. The percentage of bikes with this issue is still extremely low, and my point was that. Personally I wouldn't shy away from the bike he was considering because of this possible problem.
    It's easy enough to pop the valve covers. If the owner balks, walk.
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  2. #242
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    It's easy enough to pop the valve covers. If the owner balks, walk.
    I agree, it would not stop me from buying a bike.

    I would want to inspect the cams and if the owner did not allow it I would walk.

    It is so hit and miss, new old, few or many miles, just a crap shoot when the surface hardening starts to go.

    I would think a bunch more of BMW if they just flat out said it would replace the cams. Even if I had to pay labor it would beat the poke in the eye BMW is giving owners on this issue.

    Hey I love BMW my 3rd one and I will never own another brand. My GS does everything I want and need it to do. It will be the bike I die with. It is why I went to a 17.5 GS when I had the chance but not the need. I loved my 15 RT until I sat on a low GS. I did not want TFT, but I wanted the upgraded transmission. I did not know I wanted a low model, but after sitting it it was a done deal. I wanted a bike that looked good without the bags and wanted a boxer motor.

    Thing is I have checked cams and valves on mine since 60 miles. That is 60, 600, 6,000, 12,000, and 18,000 basically every oil change. So I enjoy the work, have the tools, and I have time to do it. But what about everyone else who does not? What about the guys that dont belong to this Forum and are even aware of it?

    BMW needs to step up and make sure they do the right thing on this cam issue. I dont have 1200 bucks for cams how about you?
    Lee
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  3. #243
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    I agree, it would not stop me from buying a bike.

    I would want to inspect the cams and if the owner did not allow it I would walk.

    It is so hit and miss, new old, few or many miles, just a crap shoot when the surface hardening starts to go.

    I would think a bunch more of BMW if they just flat out said it would replace the cams. Even if I had to pay labor it would beat the poke in the eye BMW is giving owners on this issue.

    Hey I love BMW my 3rd one and I will never own another brand. My GS does everything I want and need it to do. It will be the bike I die with. It is why I went to a 17.5 GS when I had the chance but not the need. I loved my 15 RT until I sat on a low GS. I did not want TFT, but I wanted the upgraded transmission. I did not know I wanted a low model, but after sitting it it was a done deal. I wanted a bike that looked good without the bags and wanted a boxer motor.

    Thing is I have checked cams and valves on mine since 60 miles. That is 60, 600, 6,000, 12,000, and 18,000 basically every oil change. So I enjoy the work, have the tools, and I have time to do it. But what about everyone else who does not? What about the guys that dont belong to this Forum and are even aware of it?

    BMW needs to step up and make sure they do the right thing on this cam issue. I dont have 1200 bucks for cams how about you?
    It's even more than that. The cam followers and follower shafts have to be replaced too and then anything else they find. I would think with labor it could be well over $2k.
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  4. #244
    Registered User Motodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alegerlotz View Post
    I'm not saying that this thing isn't real, and believe me, every time I pop open valve covers, I inspect my cams closely to see whether or not there is abnormal wear. IMO BMW should be covering this issue 100% for bikes that encounter this issue because it is a manufacturing flaw.

    That being said, the guy asking the question was considering not looking at a low mileage bike because of this. The percentage of bikes with this issue is still extremely low, and my point was that. Personally I wouldn't shy away from the bike he was considering because of this possible problem.
    How does anyone really know the percentage? Are you quoting from a specific report? It is a crap shoot, therein lies the problem. BMW does not deal in transparency when it come to anything besides new unit sales records...and that's a guess on my part.
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  5. #245
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    How does anyone really know the percentage? Are you quoting from a specific report? It is a crap shoot, therein lies the problem. BMW does not deal in transparency when it come to anything besides new unit sales records...and that's a guess on my part.
    True and it's because they don't have to. Kind of like beer producers don't have to disclose nutritional info so they don't.
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  6. #246
    Registered User LFarling's Avatar
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    And so you know you can have this issue and not know it.

    The one I got firsthand info on was a bike just came from a 12K service a few hundred miles on it the cams were flaked when they opened it to do a cam timing check. The owner who is a long time rider said he did not notice any loss in power or noise.

    So this is something that can go undetected by a rider for quite some time. And the "mud" this causes is in your oil pan hopefully, and not drawn up into your motor because the filter has gone to the bypass valve because it is clogged.

    Just another thing to watch for. I mean if you go back through these bikes just about every example has a "glitch" or a known issue with workarounds.

    I mean drilling holes in my bell housing on my LT so if a seal went I had a chance of it draining out the hole and not contaminating my clutch. Spare FD that has been shimmed correctly boxed in case a road repair is needed. 15 RT after a initial weep from the water pump was issue free except for the left bag would throw fits going back on and locking at times. The 17.5 GS has been issue free. Not one item to fuss over or complain about on it.

    BMW builds one hell of a bike for sure. My issue is they wont and dont own their issues. I mean how can you make someone pay for cam shafts when you know you have a production issue? I am surprised no one has taken them to court.

    I do know the brakes got fixed in a hurry as people went and filed claims with the NTHSA the stop order came damn quick. Should not have to do these thing on a luxury product with safety issues. The company should be doing this. Same with the fork stanchion recall again NTHSA stepped in.

    Again I love BMW motorcycles and think they are the top of the food chain in bikes, but the QC needs to step up, and they need to stand behind known issues in their products and stop putting it on the consumer. And as far as I am concerned even having to pay labor to fix defective parts is just crazy.
    Lee
    2017.5 R 1200 GSW

  7. #247
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    Has anyone actually had to pay for repairs because of this cam wear? I don't recall any cases that were not eventually resolved at BMW's expense.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  8. #248
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFarling View Post
    And so you know you can have this issue and not know it.

    The one I got firsthand info on was a bike just came from a 12K service a few hundred miles on it the cams were flaked when they opened it to do a cam timing check. The owner who is a long time rider said he did not notice any loss in power or noise.

    So this is something that can go undetected by a rider for quite some time. And the "mud" this causes is in your oil pan hopefully, and not drawn up into your motor because the filter has gone to the bypass valve because it is clogged.

    Just another thing to watch for. I mean if you go back through these bikes just about every example has a "glitch" or a known issue with workarounds.

    I mean drilling holes in my bell housing on my LT so if a seal went I had a chance of it draining out the hole and not contaminating my clutch. Spare FD that has been shimmed correctly boxed in case a road repair is needed. 15 RT after a initial weep from the water pump was issue free except for the left bag would throw fits going back on and locking at times. The 17.5 GS has been issue free. Not one item to fuss over or complain about on it.

    BMW builds one hell of a bike for sure. My issue is they wont and dont own their issues. I mean how can you make someone pay for cam shafts when you know you have a production issue? I am surprised no one has taken them to court.

    I do know the brakes got fixed in a hurry as people went and filed claims with the NTHSA the stop order came damn quick. Should not have to do these thing on a luxury product with safety issues. The company should be doing this. Same with the fork stanchion recall again NTHSA stepped in.

    Again I love BMW motorcycles and think they are the top of the food chain in bikes, but the QC needs to step up, and they need to stand behind known issues in their products and stop putting it on the consumer. And as far as I am concerned even having to pay labor to fix defective parts is just crazy.
    I agree, but it's a problem with business models that are always judging risk vis a vis money. As long as a problem gets beyond the warranty period and it lands on the customer, they are ok and unless the NHTSA says it's a safety issue, they won't do anything. The cracking throttle body pulleys come to mind. Don Eilengberger had an axiom about this vis a vis the fuel pump issue.

    Eilenberger's Axiom

    I'm betting BMW's solution will be some sort of clamp on ring, with a special tool to install it (probably an Oetker type design) allowing the dealer 30 minutes labor time to do the job (regardless of bike model..)

    And I'm sure based on BMW's usual reactions to these sort of things:

    1. What problem?
    2. Oh, that problem. First we've heard of it.
    3. You caused it
    4. Your environment caused it (fuel properties usually)
    5. We have no problem

    Is at step #4 now... so I'm certain they've never heard of the problem in Europe.. (said with tongue firmly in cheek..) It's caused by bad US karma.


    All vehicle manufacturers do this to some extent or another as they are publicly traded which has it's own ethics for success and we haven't even gotten to the idiocy of having to use magical BMW fluids to prevent such things like FD failures or cam wear. A YT channel I do like is a mechanic at a BMW dealer and says if you use their oil it won't happen...Really? W T F designs an engine that needs to use one particular oil or it will suffer premature wear? It's non-sense. The fluids have to meet a spec set by the industry. The problem as you have said is QA/QC and with that is manufacturers squeezing vendors on price, so quality suffers and they don't check. As long as it makes it past the warranty period.
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  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    I agree, but it's a problem with business models that are always judging risk vis a vis money. As long as a problem gets beyond the warranty period and it lands on the customer, they are ok and unless the NHTSA says it's a safety issue, they won't do anything.
    Indeed. The most infamous case were the Ford Pinto gas tanks that would explode in a rear-end collision. Ford actually did a "cost-benefit analysis" that showed that it would be cheaper to pay damages in the case of numerous deaths than it would be to fix all the cars. So they did nothing until enough flaming cars (not to be confused with Bloomsburg Flame Cars) got the NHTSA involved. And their analysis was forced into the public eye in a lawsuit. Corporate culture at its finest.
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  10. #250
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    Used RT

    Well, I've certainly enjoyed reading the comments on this subject. But nevertheless I'm going to go ahead and buy the bike. I could ask the seller to take the valve covers off, and check the cam lobes, but I guess I'm enough of a gambler to not do this on a machine with only 3300 miles or so. It would be interesting to know what the percentage of bikes sold, how many had issues,with the cam lobes. One will never know the answer to this question as BMW or no other manufacture will step up to the plate and admit there mistakes, but that's how corporation's operate, what ever continent they're from. As the bottom line is about profits.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    True and it's because they don't have to. Kind of like beer producers don't have to disclose nutritional info so they don't.

    if beer isn't nutritious, that's a far bigger issue than the occasional worn camshaft.

  12. #252
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    We can check our camshafts as often as we want. Unfortunately it cannot prevent this from occurring, and by the time you are aware of it, its too late. The damage has been done. Personally I have no expectations BMW will cover this after warrant. I will continue to use BMW branded oil and filters. Those receipts and the technical bulletin advising dealers of this problem will be my evidence for small claims court if the cam followers and cam shafts fail in my R1200RS.
    I love my 2017 RS, but I most likely would have kept my high mileage 2002 RS had I known of this issue.

  13. #253
    Registered User dlong's Avatar
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    MC-10165251-9999.pdf

    This TSB would seem to indicate a problem other that faulty hardening of the cam lobes.

  14. #254
    Registered User patm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlong0609 View Post
    MC-10165251-9999.pdf

    This TSB would seem to indicate a problem other that faulty hardening of the cam lobes.
    If I read this correctly, the fault would be with the cam followers?
    Pat

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  15. #255
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    From my welding experience that includes “hard facing” wear item- the hardness of the contacting parts have to me matched so on part doesn’t beat the crap out of the other part.
    In heat treating, it’s usually the surface of the part that is supposed to actually receive the treatment.
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