Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

cap said:

OK, so I think you have identified the problem. You like the bike, but you don’t like the uncertainty surrounding the possibility that the bike might have another major mechanical failure... and maybe that failure could happen while you are on the road somewhere inconveniently far from your home base.

I know that feeling. I owned a 2004 RT, and every owner of that generation of BMW 1150’s knows that dread of stripping a transmission input shaft very suddenly, and finding oneself alone on the side of the road. But here’s a couple of thoughts: first, the cam failure isn’t a sudden catastrophic failure. It develops over time, and doesn’t strand you on the side of the road. Second, you can buy an extended warranty, and trip insurance. The MOA offers trip insurance with their annual membership, so if you do get stuck somewhere, you can get a tow. And an extended warranty gives you peace of mind that if BMW won’t repair the bike for free, your insurance will cover the cost of repairs.

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If BMW wants to keep me in the fold they need to offer me a free extended warranty. To have to pay for one given the issues I have had is laughable at best. Laughable at BMW not you so don't take it that way.

NC

Motodan said:

I'll add once more the comments from our BMW rep back in 2008 when the antenna ring debacle took place. When I asked her how BMW can have these types of defects and not pay with a lower revenue stream and customers turning to other makes. Her answer was the buying public has a very short memory and while it might take some time to return to "normal" the defects have little overall effect. Apparently so goes their mind set.

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To this I will add there will be many first time buyers who are not aware that a problem existed. Look at the Hayes brake debacle. If that problem is magically taken care of today, on Tuesday a new buyer can go to a BMW dealer and never know the problem existed in the first place. How many of us as first time purchasers simply didn't know of an issue that existed just a short time before? It isn't even how short our memories are is it because our BMW existence only began the day after the problems were solved. It is like music, the day after Michael Jackson dies some young person get's into music and will never know his musical legacy. He'll just be some "older" musician from a different era that no longer existed at the exact time that person started to listen to music. Certainly John Lennon and Elvis Presley were long gone before I got into music.

In so many ways we start to pay attention to something that is new to us at that exact moment but we are oblivious to what occurred just yesterday.

My final point is how many people WANT a BMW and do know about what has happened but want that new bike so badly they'll cross their fingers and hope they get a good one. I have certainly done this were someone warned me not to buy brand X after his miserable experience. If it is what I want I just figure he got a bad one and more than likely I'll get a good one. But with BMW, I am now probably finished.

NC

numbercruncher said:

But with BMW, I am now probably finished.

NC

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In 2015 I had my short list down to a new R1200RT, or FJR1300ES, 2016 model. I did the best objective analysis after 3 test rides each, and ended up w/ the BMW, and so far it's been everything hoped, now at over 44K miles. My brother who has 600,000m plus on various BMWs said his favorite bike of all time was his 2015 FJR1300ES, so have a look there. Uber durable, super smooth. A bit heavier, but not bad.

My cam issue

I have a 2018 r1200gsa bought new in dec of 2017. At 12k I found a small ridge on one of my intake cam lobes. Took it to the dealer and they replaced the intake and exhaust cams on the right side. Fast forward to 29k miles and my right side valves are really noisy. I pull the cover and find a pretty large grove in an intake lobe, approximately 3/16 inch deep. The valves were checked by the dealer at 24k miles so a huge amount of wear in just 5k miles. I am pretty irritated the dealer didn’t replace all 4 as this impacted a week long ride this summer. Let’s hope there are cams available in the US.

kevmc said:

I have a 2018 r1200gsa bought new in dec of 2017. At 12k I found a small ridge on one of my intake cam lobes. Took it to the dealer and they replaced the intake and exhaust cams on the right side. Fast forward to 29k miles and my right side valves are really noisy. I pull the cover and find a pretty large grove in an intake lobe, approximately 3/16 inch deep. The valves were checked by the dealer at 24k miles so a huge amount of wear in just 5k miles. I am pretty irritated the dealer didn’t replace all 4 as this impacted a week long ride this summer. Let’s hope there are cams available in the US.

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What's strange to me is most dealers will look for warranty work, why wouldn't they check each cam lobe when the opportunity arises? I don't care how rare this issue is, once the valve covers are off it's easy and fast to check.

strataj said:

What's strange to me is most dealers will look for warranty work, why wouldn't they check each cam lobe when the opportunity arises? I don't care how rare this issue is, once the valve covers are off it's easy and fast to check.

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Since typically BMW pays less for warranty work than the prevailing shop rate many dealers only like warranty work when the shop isn't busy; or so I have been told.

kevmc said:

I have a 2018 r1200gsa bought new in dec of 2017. At 12k I found a small ridge on one of my intake cam lobes. Took it to the dealer and they replaced the intake and exhaust cams on the right side. Fast forward to 29k miles and my right side valves are really noisy. I pull the cover and find a pretty large grove in an intake lobe, approximately 3/16 inch deep. The valves were checked by the dealer at 24k miles so a huge amount of wear in just 5k miles. I am pretty irritated the dealer didn’t replace all 4 as this impacted a week long ride this summer. Let’s hope there are cams available in the US.

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If I read this right, the right side cams that were replaced failed again so I don't understand your statement, "I am pretty irritated the dealer didn’t replace all 4"

I meant my left side now needs replacing.

littlebriar said:

If I read this right, the right side cams that were replaced failed again so I don't understand your statement, "I am pretty irritated the dealer didn’t replace all 4"

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If there is a groove worn in the camshaft lobe does that mean The valve would not open as much as the lobe was not worn?
Thanks

kevmc said:

If there is a groove worn in the camshaft lobe does that mean The valve would not open as much as the lobe was not worn?
Thanks

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Yes. Let me make two points. The tip of the lobe establishes how far a valve will open. And during the cam rotation the spring pressures are greatest at the tip of the lobe. So maximum wear is likely to occur near and at the tip of the lobe.

Secondly, there is virtually nil spring pressure on the "backside" of the lobe where valve adjustment is measured. So cam wear is not really identified by changing valve adjustment gap. It identified visually bu seeing and examining the lobes.

LFarling said:

Great explanation.

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Yes. And the odd thing is that these reports suggest that one symptom of the problem is some additional valve tapping noise. Normally, valve noise would be caused by improper clearances on the back side of the lobes. But as Paul explains, that is not the problem here. So, where is the extra valve noise coming from?

Haven't noticed any increased valve noise on either of the two RTLCs needing new cams that I own or have owned. Cam lobes must be inspected, and as we have learned, we cannot rely on the dealer to bring this to our attention in every case.

Thanks for the info. With my approx 3/8 inch groove that would mean my valve is still opening but just not the full distance. That’s probably why I didn’t notice much performance degradation. I also guess since it’s still opening it didn’t overheat the valve or valve seat.

With all that metal in the oil do you think there might be greater damage to the engine I need to be concerned about

Kc

@kevmc - Once the cams are replaced, send oil samples to Blackstone Lab for the next few oil changes. When you send your first sample, send a note explaining what happened. They will be able to tell you many things about your oil, and whether there is anything to worry about.

In fact, for an extra $25 per oil change (test cost), this would also be a way to identify cam wear early if anyone is concerned. Sample kits are free, they only charge when you send it in for testing.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Thanks. I actually have a sample jar from them already I can use. Since I wasn’t riding I cleaned out a few drawers in my garage and found it.

Someone explained that any metal coming off the cams would first be washed into the pan and then be carried through the oil filter and retained there. I sure hope that's true.

My plan is to have the cams inspected during each annual service, by my indie.

R1250 cam lobe problems

Anybody know of any soft cam lobe problems with the R1250 shiftcam engine?

Sticky Throttle said:

Anybody know of any soft cam lobe problems with the R1250 shiftcam engine?

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See posts ## 72, 82, 164 to this thread.

vark said:

See posts ## 72, 82, 164 to this thread.

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Excellent. Thanks.

#166 was revealing. I have identical noise on 2020 RS with 3150 mi. Began less than 200 mi ago.