The motorcycle community....

71243, leave it to the Ohio guy to be the voice of reason. 100% correct, spot on and logical.


We cannot talk about fossil fuels being vilified, but we can talk about lack of money due to overwhelming school loans.


I'm happy to elaborate on the "4 year vacation" before they start real life many, many kids take.


We jokingly laugh about tire choices and oil brands being the only thing talked about on here and FB, perhaps that is because everything else is taboo.


I met a great many folks at the national this year that were like minded and KNOW our sport is under attack. There might be a few of us that will give up our bikes for the better good of society or to save the planet, but I can assure you those people are in the minority in the MOA.


Sadly there are two sets of rules.

We wonder why people are leaving the MOA, perhaps people are taking their ball and leaving because of the self righteous nature of some of the folks here.

As I watched the group of 20 and 30 year olds do their BRC exercises to hopefully earn their motorcycle operators endorsement, the peace and quiet was routinely interrupted by the herds of Middle-age and geriatric helmet-less pirates rumbling past with their straight pipe exhausts. I'm really glad I don't have to live in that neighborhood and deal with that noise every weekend.

I can count the number of years I have left to ride my motorcycle on one hand. My decision is one of recognizing my advancing age is affecting my skills and the increasing population making riding that much more challenging. This is my decision to limit my riding experience to about 50 years. I am not the only one "aging out" of the sport, and as implied previously, we are the ones with the money to support the purchase of new motorcycles, so this is a contributing factor to declining MC sales.

As distasteful as this next statement is, we need to limit the Earth's population or Mother Nature will do it for us, and not in a pleasant way! Everything cannot continue to grow in size forever.

PGlaves said:

Guns, Politics, Religion. Banned. If this is not OK with any poster, good bye. We don't need the pollution here. "Wing nuts" or "Libtards". I am a licensed handgun owner. Able to carry concealed in 37 or more states. Voter. Registered with a party. Vote every chance I get. Even serve as an Election Judge. Have religious views. But not here. This is not the place. And besides. Rules are rules. If you can't follow rules, bye bye is what I say. And if you can't follow the rules or go bye bye on your own then it is the Moderators job to enforce the rules. And they generally do an excellent job despite member's ability to try their patience. Go mods!

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Post #6 mentioned that the Greenies are attacking the internal combustion engine. And that was deemed to be politics. Why? webBikeWorld sent out one of their news articles on the same subject and how in 10 years, countries like China and India are banning internal combustion engines. And Europe is following along, but with no date set. That's not politics. It's fact.

We had five posts after #6 where no one jumped on that comment as "politics", just treated it as another statement. Then at post #12, this has become a thread about politics. Do all of you on your political stumps even remember what the original subject was about?

I must be in the slim minority because I don't want more motorcyclists. In fact I wish there were a lot fewer than today. For 51 years I've liked doing something that most people won't do. But then again, I never ride in a group and seldom ride with even one other motorcyclist -- he's a guy who is as old as me and rides about the same as I do. I've ridden cross country twice in my youth -- alone -- and liked it that way. But that's just me and I don't begrudge others for their likes and dislikes. I've always been like that -- live and let live.

As far as clubs go I subscribe to the Groucho Marx philosophy of "I wouldn't be a member of a club that would have me as a member."

For what it's worth (very little I'm sure) I agree with the moderation on this forum. There are many, many sites where these topics can be brought up and even urged on by the moderators of those sites. Meh!

"
For what it's worth (very little I'm sure) I agree with the moderation on this forum. There are many, many sites where these topics can be brought up and even urged on my the moderators of those sites. Meh! "

But one cannot go to those sites , and discuss how these things apply to motorcycles. And motorcycle riding. That can only be done on a motorcycle site/discussion group. And IMO it can be done here, in an adult manner. And sometimes, cannot be avoided when it is indeed a fact of life in our nation.

71243 said:

And IMO it can be done here, in an adult manner.

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I don't believe that can be done. Those topics start out adult but almost inevitably degenerate into childish arguments (insults and name-calling). Even if they are relegated to a sub-forum, the enmity almost always spills out into other threads.

There are other m/c forums that allow politics and whatever . . . they just may not be BMW sites.

I'd be really surprised if this idea hasn't come up before and discussed, but anyhow . . .

Maybe the admin team could add a sub-forum, say "Politics and Motorcycling" and see how it goes. It would be worth a try I think.

75450 said:

I don't believe that can be done. Those topics start out adult but almost inevitably degenerate into childish arguments (insults and name-calling). Even if they are relegated to a sub-forum, the enmity almost always spills out into other threads.

There are other m/c forums that allow politics and whatever . . . they just may not be BMW sites.

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Well then for 50 bucks p/year ... let the admins sort out those who cannot be civil & adult, and block them for a time/forever. Opposed to assuming that no one can be civil & adult on a subject & banning the sheer hint of that subject surfacing.

As for the last sentence......

So are you saying politics & the limitations they sometimes establish , do not apply to BMW motorcycles?

Again, when the AMA lobbied for our right to ride on parkways, & through parks in many areas . They did not limit that effort to just the other brands of motorcycle, they lobbied for all motorcycles including BMW. And they did it through politics & political action. Using the logic [or lack there of] used by some here....we cannot even thank them for their effort ...... because there is that hint of politics

75450 said:

I'd be really surprised if this idea hasn't come up before and discussed, but anyhow . . .

Maybe the admin team could add a sub-forum, say "Politics and Motorcycling" and see how it goes. It would be worth a try I think.

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I for one would favor / vote for such a thing. Then if a subject starts to go down the political road....it can be be moved to that sub-forum.

71243 said:

So are you saying politics & the limitations they sometimes establish , do not apply to BMW motorcycles?

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Of course not. I just think the BMW sites may be better moderated than, let's say, a Harley site.

I've had 6 Harleys in my time and belonged to a couple H-D forums -- I still do. I know.

36654 said:

As I watched the group of 20 and 30 year olds do their BRC exercises to hopefully earn their motorcycle operators endorsement, the peace and quiet was routinely interrupted by the herds of Middle-age and geriatric helmet-less pirates rumbling past with their straight pipe exhausts. I'm really glad I don't have to live in that neighborhood and deal with that noise every weekend.

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Here is the self righteousness I speak of, where is the moderator here? I forgot to mention this forum, in addition to tire and oil questions, is a breeding ground to bash on other brands and people.


3% of the people in America ride, 3%!



I'm not talking about bull**** brotherhood or comradery, I do not expect you to ride with them, but how about a little respect? I can promise you most of the people in that BRC class aspire to that (Middle-age and geriatric helmet-less pirates rumbling past with their straight pipe exhausts) rather than the type of riding YOU do.



I'm a motorcyclists, not a biker, but I love all motorcycles and the people that appreciate them. I enjoy getting together with other BMW folks, but you have to, have to, have to, know that you are a tiny minority, right? YOU are the one doing it a weird way, YOU are the one riding a bike that is rather obscure. That does not make you wrong, but it makes you seem WAY myopic. You love motorcycles as long as it's the brand you like and the type of riding you do and the way you like to dress. Oh, and the age you think is appropriate.



I'll admit I dislike loud exhausts too, but I dislike people like you even more.

75450 said:

I'd be really surprised if this idea hasn't come up before and discussed, but anyhow . . .

Maybe the admin team could add a sub-forum, say "Politics and Motorcycling" and see how it goes. It would be worth a try I think.

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This has been tried. First time it was a disaster and had to be removed. After a few years and apparently some memory loss -- it was tried again (despite some of us who've been around since the beginning suggesting it not be tried again.) The second time was an even worse disaster. It again was totally removed from the forum.

No good would come of this. Three things that can even up destroying civility on a forum (1) Politics (2) Religion (3) Guns. All are not here for a good reason, the idea of the MOA is a big-tent idea, it's to foster camaraderie between BMW motorcycle owners. Allowing rancor to take over any part of a forum is counterproductive to achieving that goal.

deilenberger said:

This has been tried. First time it was a disaster and had to be removed. After a few years and apparently some memory loss -- it was tried again (despite some of us who've been around since the beginning suggesting it not be tried again.) The second time was an even worse disaster. It again was totally removed from the forum.

No good would come of this. Three things that can even up destroying civility on a forum (1) Politics (2) Religion (3) Guns. All are not here for a good reason, the idea of the MOA is a big-tent idea, it's to foster camaraderie between BMW motorcycle owners. Allowing rancor to take over any part of a forum is counterproductive to achieving that goal.

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Thanks for the historical perspective. I believe that. Like I posted here:

75450 said:

I don't believe that can be done. Those topics start out adult but almost inevitably degenerate into childish arguments (insults and name-calling). Even if they are relegated to a sub-forum, the enmity almost always spills out into other threads.

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Moderator interruption

What is the chance we can chill on this back and forth?

I find threads like this eventually end up down the same road.

When someone posts something they agree with, it’s yeah! As soon as someone posts something that they don’t like, they report the post.

When threads like this are allowed to “run”, nothing is really solved and the net result is half the participants angry. It’s pretty easy to see this here.
PLEASE try to get along and remember that it’s really hard to change the mind of someone you don’t know and will probably never meet.

Thanks The Moderator Team

PS, Don’s post is a good read.

75450 said:

Maybe the admin team could add a sub-forum, say "Politics and Motorcycling" and see how it goes. It would be worth a try I think.

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deilenberger said:

This has been tried. First time it was a disaster and had to be removed. After a few years and apparently some memory loss -- it was tried again (despite some of us who've been around since the beginning suggesting it not be tried again.) The second time was an even worse disaster. It again was totally removed from the forum.

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Don't go there....

36654 said:

As I watched the group of 20 and 30 year olds do their BRC exercises to hopefully earn their motorcycle operators endorsement, the peace and quiet was routinely interrupted by the herds of Middle-age and geriatric helmet-less pirates rumbling past with their straight pipe exhausts. I'm really glad I don't have to live in that neighborhood and deal with that noise every weekend.

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As a related aside but relevant: Voni and I have been directly involved mentoring young riders at G.E.A.R.S. at the national rally for more than ten years. One of the topics always included in the curriculum is riding gear. We stress that at least minimal protective gear is critical. You know; helmet, long pants, over the ankle boots/shoes etc. We also talk about more intense ATTGAT; armored jackets and pants, gloves, etc.

Then we take a break, or are out on the range and one or several BMW riding BMW MOA members come riding by, helmetless, wearing shorts and flip flops. This happens a dozen or more times every year. Back in the classroom we are at a loss to say anything but "Just because they ride that way doesn't mean you (GEARS attendees) should. Ride smarter!"

Visian said:

Don't go there....

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I was trying to be magnanimous.

"Here is the self righteousness I speak of, where is the moderator here?"

Well, having been a motorcyclist for 48-yrs and born at the tail end of the Baby boom, I guess I'm part that apparently blessed 3%. But, I'm also a Borough Council man and homeowner that provides me a perspective on fairness to my neighbors and the quality of life in my neighborhood. Self-righteous, apparently, has a new definition?

PGlaves said:

As a related aside but relevant: Voni and I have been directly involved mentoring young riders at G.E.A.R.S. at the national rally for more than ten years. One of the topics always included in the curriculum is riding gear. We stress that at least minimal protective gear is critical. You know; helmet, long pants, over the ankle boots/shoes etc. We also talk about more intense ATTGAT; armored jackets and pants, gloves, etc.

Then we take a break, or are out on the range and one or several BMW riding BMW MOA members come riding by, helmetless, wearing shorts and flip flops. This happens a dozen or more times every year. Back in the classroom we are at a loss to say anything but "Just because they ride that way doesn't mean you (GEARS attendees) should. Ride smarter!"

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Yep, really trashes a lesson plan.............