The motorcycle community....

71243 said:

I it just me?....or does it seem to be 'shrinking'?....I'm sure it's aging, but.

I follow here & some other M/C forums and it just appears that participation has really slowed. And locally, about all I see on the road is H/D. Granted they have always been most numerous , but now....almost exclusive.

Two H/D dealers...and AFAIK only one "multi-brand" dealer in the whole region?. About 50 miles to the next one. Used to be some choices, which are just gone. No BMW dealer in several years now.

Ooops I forgot one...A Guzzi dealer whose franchise is fairly new..... used to be used bikes only.

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...any chance the thread can come back to the OP's comment?

36654 said:

"Here is the self righteousness I speak of, where is the moderator here?"

Well, having been a motorcyclist for 48-yrs and born at the tail end of the Baby boom, I guess I'm part that apparently blessed 3%. But, I'm also a Borough Council man and homeowner that provides me a perspective on fairness to my neighbors and the quality of life in my neighborhood. Self-righteous, apparently, has a new definition?

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Well, that puts it in perspective. I wasn't aware being a local politician gives you the authority to call other riders "geriatric pirates."

I'm not bad at math, I'm going to make the assumption you are not in the spring of your life either.


Please continue to expound on your 48 years of experience, I myself have only been riding a few weeks and am sitting on the edge of my seat ready to receive the wonderful knowledge.

daboo said:

...any chance the thread can come back to the OP's comment?

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Someone mentioned the 'rareness' of BMW. So true, I went to "bike-night" one night a few years back, [I used to on occasion] . Some of the attendees looked at my [Roadster] like it was from Mars Some even walked around it like it had the plague .

I also have a Victory Crossroad....it is not well received in these here parts either...

But overall I just do not see that many motorcycles in general. I know for sure, fewer than 20/30 years back? And again, those that I do see, the riders are ..... "un-young" .

All that said ........ People are seeing less&less of myself as well due to [as another member stated] "aging out"

"No good would come of this. Three things that can even up destroying civility on a forum (1) Politics (2) Religion (3) Guns. All are not here for a good reason, the idea of the MOA is a big-tent idea, it's to foster camaraderie between BMW motorcycle owners. Allowing rancor to take over any part of a forum is counterproductive to achieving that goal."


How can it destroy the civility of the forum ? when it would only be a part [of] the forum ?

Those that do not wish to participate can easily avoid that part/those threads. The forum remains civil, & popular. Those of us that wish to discuss the political aspect of motorcycles can do so.

I can only speak for myself and, I will not become angry with anyone, attack anyone, or be "over the top" in my manner of discussion/debate. But if some politician is pushing a bill, an action ? that would negatively affect motorcycles .... I certainly would like to discuss it with my fellow riders.

I have membership in another motorcycle forum that does have a sub-forum devoted to off-topic topics, and it seems to work okay. And it's been stated that the same has been tried here in the past and failed miserably.

Maybe some of the reason can be seen in just how far this thread has wandered from the OP's original post.

And yes, I know that by posting this I'm contributing to the swerve.

if you want a no holds barred political forum with roughly the same demographic as motorcycling then go to sailinganarchy.com forums. The "General" board is actually pretty useful and entertaining as well. Only rules there are accusing others of sex crimes, stalking and outing people's real identity.

chrisinsc said:

if you want a no holds barred political forum with roughly the same demographic as motorcycling then go to sailinganarchy.com forums. The "General" board is actually pretty useful and entertaining as well. Only rules there are accusing others of sex crimes, stalking and outing people's real identity.

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Well, that's not what i want....but thanks for sharing the information still the same.

daboo said:

...any chance the thread can come back to the OP's comment?

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Good point. I can only offer my own opinion on the shrinking rider issue. By the time I put on the armored jacket, boots, helmet, gloves, etc to to for a ride, I'm thinking," I could just sit down in a convertible car and go". And it would be a lot cooler in the summer-possibly more fun.

I met a guy a few years back that was the first one to say something I completely agreed with:
" Riding a motorcycle properly is a lot of work." And it sure is, if you want to stay alive. Scanning constantly, watching car wheel spokes for movement, gripping both handles at intersections, etc etc. Nothing like being on full alert for hours. The other point that may well end my riding career relates to that: Too much risk, and staggering expense if you are hurt. I can't justify it. Not to mention the damage to your body. Didn't I read here about a guy who got hit and ended up with $95,000 in out of pocket care costs? Maybe I'm just getting old, (certainly true) but the fun vs risk factor is just about reversed from my first Honda 350 many years ago. Surprising, to me at least, is that if I give up motorcycles, I don't think I will miss it that much. Simply too much work, too much risk, and too little fun in the current environment. I'm sure that's not a sentiment that is shared by most MOA members. You have my admiration.

jconway607 said:

Good point. I can only offer my own opinion on the shrinking rider issue. By the time I put on the armored jacket, boots, helmet, gloves, etc to to for a ride, I'm thinking," I could just sit down in a convertible car and go". And it would be a lot cooler in the summer-possibly more fun.

I met a guy a few years back that was the first one to say something I completely agreed with:
" Riding a motorcycle properly is a lot of work." And it sure is, if you want to stay alive. Scanning constantly, watching car wheel spokes for movement, gripping both handles at intersections, etc etc. Nothing like being on full alert for hours. The other point that may well end my riding career relates to that: Too much risk, and staggering expense if you are hurt. I can't justify it. Not to mention the damage to your body. Didn't I read here about a guy who got hit and ended up with $95,000 in out of pocket care costs? Maybe I'm just getting old, (certainly true) but the fun vs risk factor is just about reversed from my first Honda 350 many years ago. Surprising, to me at least, is that if I give up motorcycles, I don't think I will miss it that much. Simply too much work, too much risk, and too little fun in the current environment. I'm sure that's not a sentiment that is shared by most MOA members. You have my admiration.

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I've been a little introspective in the last couple years, thinking about my riding and age. When we were young and in our 20's and 30's, we all seemed about the same. When we hit around that magic age of 60 and older, we look around and realize there's people years younger than you who look so much older than you are. For instance, my next door neighbor is about ten years younger, yet he looks really old and decrepit. There's a guy who teaches in the prison seminary program I'm involved in that is in his mid-70s and looks like he's in his mid-50's.

It's not just that, but the realization that your ability to ride may be there one day...and gone the next. Balance issues, can crop up and all of a sudden, you're stuck with only 4 wheels. And so I'll don all the gear and look for quality gear to use to minimize the chance of injury, if I do take a spill. I haven't had a spill since about 1981...but I could have one tonight. I'd like to get up, brush off my gear and get back on the bike afterwards.


As for the younger riders to replace us older riders, I have no idea what to do. I did have some fun the other day at Costco. I came out and found a young mother and her young (8?) son looking at my F800GT. She was telling him not to touch it. He was clearly in love with it. So I offered...with Mom's permission of course...to let him sit on it. It was about all he could do to climb up the side of the bike (with my hands just off his body where he couldn't see them, in case he slipped. He was in seventh heaven. His mom took his picture. Then dad came out with his sister. She was about 11 and climbed up too. Pictures were taken with each of them by themselves and then together. They were incredibly excited and it was great to be a part of that.

I understand the push for the manufacturers to add all the technology and gadgets...but they raise prices to the point where the bikes cost as much as cars now. Gone is the simplicity of the bikes of the 1980s and that era. They weren't as sophisticated and they broke down far more. But you could fix them yourself...which lowers the cost of ownership.

Chris

daboo said:

... When we hit around that magic age of 60 and older, we look around and realize there's people years younger than you who look so much older than you are...

Chris

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I've been noticing the same thing. Nonetheless I feel like I'm nearing the point where I'll stop riding soon. I'm not enjoying my current long trip as much as I have previous ones, I feel like I'm ready for a smaller lighter bike but my current ride isn't worth anything as a trade (who would give me anything for a 3 year old bike with well over 100K?). The good news is that when I drop out the average age will go down by about 0.0001 year. Whatever I can do to help!

The motorcycle industry hasn't recovered from the 2008 crash and the flood of easy cheap money that preceded (and caused) it. Most companies prefer to direct profits toward rewarding their shareholders rather than the people creating the profits so there's less disposable income to spend on expensive toys. I've seen lots of RV dealers with what must be millions of dollars of inventory on their lots, who's buying them?

The things that interested large numbers of people in the 60's simply aren't relevant to the world we live in. Lots of folks used to be interested in building their own electronics from kits too - those days are long gone. Anyone remember Heathkit? Life magazine?

wbrownell9 said:

The motorcycle industry hasn't recovered from the 2008 crash and the flood of easy cheap money that preceded (and caused) it. Most companies prefer to direct profits toward rewarding their shareholders rather than the people creating the profits so there's less disposable income to spend on expensive toys. I've seen lots of RV dealers with what must be millions of dollars of inventory on their lots, who's buying them?

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https://www.southbendtribune.com/ne...cle_59ac1e9f-0045-572c-86e6-9fd2a81f792b.html

scqtt said:

I'm not talking about bull**** brotherhood or comradery, I do not expect you to ride with them, but how about a little respect?

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Not sure why you feel that camaraderie is BS, because... fundamentally... a lack of it is why the motorcycling community is shrinking and falling apart.

Let's set aside comments like "middle-age and geriatric helmet-less pirates" and focus on our own little MOA world for a bit. Our membership numbers are tanking, maybe in part to the market conditions that others mention in this thread, but also (imo) because we simply do not make it a priority to seek out and make younger/newer/different riders feel welcome. This was acknowledged in our recent Board meeting and I can't believe we are not calling it out, so I will.

Two specific points:

1) Delta HAUS-U55 This group formed after a number of younger (20-30 somethings) were roundly criticized at our Iowa rally by a good number of "get off my yard" types for being either less-than-ATTGATT or riding with gear judged to be sub-standard. It remains to be seen what will happen with this group, some did come to the Rally in TN, and there are a few senior members of our community helping to point them in a productive direction, but they are about 5-700 poster children of the members our club (and the motorcycling community) desperately need. In large part we are spurning them.

2) The GS Giants These people may be a little more familiar here because they have played a huge role (imo) in the fun that happens at our rally, as well as other places that the motocommunity congregates throughout the year. They started in 2011 and were basically dis-invited after 2017 because of comments from our leadership and paid staff like "what would you think if a bunch of Harley riders set up a rally within our rally?" ... and "can you prove that the GS Giants are bringing new members to the MOA?" Honestly, when I hear that, I think "these people not only don't get it, they don't want to get it."

So this year, relative to the Facebook post below, the GS Giants are riding into Colorado next month to enjoy a party like the one that used to happen at the MOA rally. The event was capped at 275 riders and there is a wait list over 50 riders long. Think about it... our rally attendance could have increased by 300 riders x $60 to bring $18,000 in additional revenue and triple the number of the "largest virtual club in attendance." And money isn't even the real point... look at the faces of the volunteers in the image below... we have spurned hundreds, if not thousands of prime members in the process of deciding not to have any adventure event component to our rally. And to sharpen the point, we could be doing the same thing for sport bikes... and custom bikes... two segments of the motorcycling community that we refuse to even address.

Circling it back to the camaraderie BS, and talking as a marketing guy, I have never seen a group like motorcyclists, who have such an obvious commonality amongst themselves, that are more inclined to focus on their differences and dividing themselves into tiny segments that won't talk to each other because they don't measure up on some minor point.

/rant

Ian

ps...

The above post actually conflicts with my personal policy of discussing club business outside of the Clubhouse... but it's relevant to the conversation here.

pps...

Politics on our forum.... trust me, even it it's discussions related to effects of politics on motorcycling, it won't work.

damhikt

71243 said:

"No good would come of this. Three things that can even up destroying civility on a forum (1) Politics (2) Religion (3) Guns. All are not here for a good reason, the idea of the MOA is a big-tent idea, it's to foster camaraderie between BMW motorcycle owners. Allowing rancor to take over any part of a forum is counterproductive to achieving that goal."


How can it destroy the civility of the forum ? when it would only be a part [of] the forum ?

Those that do not wish to participate can easily avoid that part/those threads. The forum remains civil, & popular. Those of us that wish to discuss the political aspect of motorcycles can do so.

I can only speak for myself and, I will not become angry with anyone, attack anyone, or be "over the top" in my manner of discussion/debate. But if some politician is pushing a bill, an action ? that would negatively affect motorcycles .... I certainly would like to discuss it with my fellow riders.

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100% in agreement with your position. If someone bent on isolating themselves from political discussion as it relates to motorcycling it's super simple: DON'T PARTICIPATE in that forum. Easy, peasy. Politics entangles every aspect of life including motorcycling. I predict a Politics & Motorcycling forum would rapidly become the most utilized forum here because it's on most everyone's mind a good part of the time nowadays. Plus, and this is important: you don't solve political division by talking about motor oil, or pretending there is no division. It's an opportunity to put out ideas and while the goal may not be to swing someone to your way of seeing things it helps others see things in a different light, or certainly can. I love a good cogent argument.

As to the OP's comment: I'm stunned by how many motorcycle riders there are where I live now, in Arvada CO near Denver, having been burned out of the late town of Paradise CA. I was out for a lousy 30m ride this morning leaving at 6:31am to beat the heat and saw not less than 25 other riders. I guess it's just pent up riding demand after the winter--plus it's so beautiful here! We're loving it!

ncpbmw1953 said:

Plus, and this is important: you don't solve political division by talking about motor oil, or pretending there is no division. It's an opportunity to put out ideas and while the goal may not be to swing someone to your way of seeing things it helps others see things in a different light, or certainly can. I love a good cogent argument.

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Pro tip: a forum here about politics will not solve *any* political division and will create a nightmare full of problems for our volunteer admins. It would also spoil whatever good vibe here that we've managed to preserve.

Take it to CSM.

Visian said:

Circling it back to the camaraderie BS, and talking as a marketing guy, I have never seen a group like motorcyclists, who have such an obvious commonality amongst themselves, that are more inclined to focus on their differences and dividing themselves into tiny segments that won't talk to each other because they don't measure up on some minor point...

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Some time ago, I asked a psychologist friend what she thought underlies this behaviour, and she thought it had to do with self esteem i.e. riders feeling they need to be better than other riders.

Visian said:

Pro tip: a forum here about politics will not solve *any* political division and will create a nightmare full of problems for our volunteer admins. It would also spoil whatever good vibe here that we've managed to preserve.

Take it to CSM.

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Again, {I} strongly disagree. If {you} cannot deal with any subject in an emotionally controlled , civil , respectful, manner? Then you should restrain from participating in such a discussion ? But why not allow those of us who can, participate in such a discussion?

All the time {we} are involved in these discussions ... you will surely be welcomed in any of the oil/tire/battery threads you choose.

FYI . . .

There is a poll to see how much interest there is in asking the MOA forum admins to add a new sub-forum, Politics & Motorcycling.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthrea...quot-Politics-and-Motorcycling-quot-sub-forum

If you intentionally annoy people just to prove your existence, perhaps you need to reassess who has a problem.

So, I’m really good with stating my annoyance at the obnoxious people that insist on generating excessive noise. If that doesn’t make me a good comrade, l’m happy not joining the “Bikers Republic”