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Thread: A grim day in NH

  1. #151
    Registered User Subman's Avatar
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    LEO = Law Enforcement Officer.
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  2. #152
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    When I took driver's education 60 years ago we were taught to stay back one car length for every ten miles per hour. So at 70 mph that would be seven car lengths - say 140 feet. Even that is not quite 2 seconds. So this two or three car lengths is pure folly, but we see it every day. And following too close causes far more accidents than speeding. With dashcam and a freeway equivalent of red-light cams this is now as easy to prove as speeding is with radar, so my opinion is the LEOs need to get to work on this.
    And what is taught these days is "three seconds following distance" rather than two seconds...and more than that in difficult situations like snow or heavy rain.
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  3. #153
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    And what is taught these days is "three seconds following distance" rather than two seconds...and more than that in difficult situations like snow or heavy rain.
    In an era that mixes sub-compact cars and crew-cab pickups with 8ft boxes, identifying a three-second gap vs “car length x number of cars” is probably a more useful metric for beginning drivers.

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  4. #154
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    This is all really academic. Around here leaving 4 vehicle spaces between you and the car in front I just the right distance for 5 to fit in
    If there are rules, everyone needs to be on board with the rules.
    OM
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  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    This is all really academic. Around here leaving 4 vehicle spaces between you and the car in front I just the right distance for 5 to fit in
    If there are rules, everyone needs to be on board with the rules.
    OM
    Or people need to be deterred by proper law enforcement. In the olden days this didn't happen because it devolved into he said - he said. With dash cam this excuse goes out the window. And every rear-end collision ought to result in a citation. That won't of course happen, so the carnage will continue while enforcement continues to target speeding and burned out license plate bulbs.
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  6. #156
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    And what is taught these days is "three seconds following distance" rather than two seconds...and more than that in difficult situations like snow or heavy rain.
    2 second minimum is stated, but then a list of caveats is provided, which includes 99% of real world conditions, and a strong suggestion to double the minimum...... ~4-seconds

    60 mph = 88 fps. So, in 2 seconds at you travel 176-ft. A good estimate of stopping distance at 60-mph is ~200+ ft. So, in my opinion, a 2 second following distance will not provide the necessary time/distance for an emergency stop.
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    2 second minimum is stated, but then a list of caveats is provided, which includes 99% of real world conditions, and a strong suggestion to double the minimum...... ~4-seconds

    60 mph = 88 fps. So, in 2 seconds at you travel 176-ft. A good estimate of stopping distance at 60-mph is ~200+ ft. So, in my opinion, a 2 second following distance will not provide the necessary time/distance for an emergency stop.
    Basically, I agree with your conclusion. However, your analysis leaves out the fact that the vehicle in front of you cannot stop instantly. So with a 2 second gap between you and the car in front, one will have more than the 176 ft to stop in.

    Another issue that I don't see mentioned in this thread: On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.
    Will
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  8. #158
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    A weakly related comment: I wish car and truck drivers spent as much time on forums discussing safe driving techniques as motorcyclists do.
    Will
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    Previous: 1999 R1100RT Tundra Green • 1987 R100RT Grey • 1970 R60/5 Black • 196? Honda 305 Super Hawk • 195? Sears Allstate 50 cc Moped

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWaterCooled View Post
    ... On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.
    The moral to this story is simply: try hard to avoid busy highways especially during rush hour periods. Even if it takes a little longer to get where you need to be find a smarter safer alternate route wherever you can and enjoy the ride. This philosophy when consistently applied can go a long ways to help reduce crash risk. There are times of day when riding on our local freeways (Denver area) can be done safely for sure and there are other times when it feels a lot like Russian Roulette because of the tailgating, jockeying for position, crossing two lanes abruptly so they don't miss their turn off, all while texting, eating a croissant and sipping a latte. I never go on the freeways during those times of day, but I don't have to either so that I'm thankful for.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWaterCooled View Post
    Another issue that I don't see mentioned in this thread: On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.
    See Post #154 and Post #155
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  11. #161
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWaterCooled View Post
    Basically, I agree with your conclusion. However, your analysis leaves out the fact that the vehicle in front of you cannot stop instantly. So with a 2 second gap between you and the car in front, one will have more than the 176 ft to stop in.

    Another issue that I don't see mentioned in this thread: On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.
    What about that massive center-of-the-lane pot hole, the shredding tire belts from the semi or the crap that falls-off the Tri-Axial from the construction site. They will not be going 60...........
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  12. #162
    Registered User rogerc60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    What about that massive center-of-the-lane pot hole, the shredding tire belts from the semi or the crap that falls-off the Tri-Axial from the construction site. They will not be going 60...........
    Excellent point (and you beat me to it).

    While riding I'm always imagining what I would do should one of those obstacles suddenly appear behind the car I'm following. Once or twice in my relatively brief return to riding (i.e. since this past March) staying far enough behind has saved my hide.

  13. #163
    Registered User 75450's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    What about that massive center-of-the-lane pot hole,..
    Don't ride in the center of the lane, if you can help it. Most of the debris will be "kicked" into the center of the lane by tires. I usually ride in left side of the lane, in the tire track, if I can. I assume if the vehicle(s) in front of me have missed some obstacle, then I will probably miss it also.

    It's a fact that sometimes you can't leave proper following distance in heavy traffic. I avoid heavy traffic like the plague.
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  14. #164
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 75450 View Post
    Don't ride in the center of the lane, if you can help it. Most of the debris will be "kicked" into the center of the lane by tires. I usually ride in left side of the lane, in the tire track, if I can. I assume if the vehicle(s) in front of me have missed some obstacle, then I will probably miss it also.

    It's a fact that sometimes you can't leave proper following distance in heavy traffic. I avoid heavy traffic like the plague.
    I used the center-of-the-lane pot hole to illustrate something that a 4-wheel vehicle might avoid without swerving and providing an indication of a approaching (in the relative frame) obstacle. But, yes, riding on the left side of the lane is my reference.
    Cave contents: 16 R12RS, 13 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & SawStop PCS175
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  15. #165
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    I will stubbornly maintain a safe following distance.

    "But others will fill in ahead of me." So what? Traffic is usually faster than the speed limit, often 10 or more over the limit. If I am "dropping back" to maintain my chosen following distance I really don't care who fills in ahead of me. I'm still motoring right along... I'm just not in that big a hurry. I do recognize that large speed differentials are dangerous so I will modify my speed to co-exist with other drivers but I simply will not adjust my following distance...I will also adjust my speed to eliminate that crazy accordion effect where traffic is zooming along but then screeches to a halt. I'll look farther up the road and do my part to minimize that fast/slow/fast/slow nonsense that heavy traffic often exhibits. When traffic speeds up, I'll speed up at a slower rate and when I see traffic slowing ahead of me I'll slow down sooner to reduce my rate of deceleration.

    I do my own thing.
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