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Thread: Motorcyclist Visibility

  1. #31

    Just ordered

    I just placed my order for a rear set of Skeneís for the GSA.

    Jeff

  2. 06-11-2019, 09:16 PM
    Reason
    stupid post

  3. #32
    I have a blue/white R1200RS with a pair of auxiliary amber spotlights mounted on the crash bars and wear a white helmet. Iíve had several cars pull over and stop for me!

  4. #33
    Yesterday coming back from lunch I noticed a bike in about a quarter of a mile in front of me. What got my attention was the bike changing lanes, plus I an super aware of motorcycles. The rider had a light helmet and mostly yellow and black jacket. When I went by him I noticed it was a wethead RT. The front light was very dim, He had some auxiliary lights down by the rotors which were brighter. I really didn't notice the rider behind the windshield and fairing. An LED headlight and some more lighting and he would have been a lot more conspicuous.
    Buck in Greensboro, NC
    2013 R 1200 RT Midnight Blue - traded, 2014 R 1200 RT Ebony Metallic, 2016 S 1000 XR

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by bdfbeemer View Post
    An LED headlight and some more lighting and he would have been a lot more conspicuous.
    Ditto if he used his high beam during daylight.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  6. #35
    Registered User powwow's Avatar
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    While I agree with conspicuous gear, what has seemed to make the biggest difference for me has been Clearwater lights up front and a Billie Brake light coupled with the high brake light on my 49L case. Riding with friends they have all mentioned whether following me or in front of me how my RT stands out.

    Of course, none of that means anything when a cager has their mind on the poor business meeting they just left or any number of other distractions. For me after 50 years of riding, the single thing that has saved my bacon more times than I can count is ALWAYS expect drivers to do what they're not supposed to do. It's about recognizing those situations when motorcycle accidents are most likely to happen and taking steps to neutralize the risk. While this ability at recognition can certainly be taught, it mostly just develops over time from experience.
    Larry Gregerson; Bend, OR
    MOA #93031

  7. #36

    Movement

    Seems like most of the arguments for conspicuity are covered in this discussion. I wear hi-viz most of the time, although I do have four jackets I wear on a regular basis that don't qualify. Yes I know, I have a problem with too much motorcycle gear, but I like it, and I'll take the extra risk when I wear my "bad ass motorcycle dude" leather jacket, or my grey Aerostich Darien light jacket. I'll agree with the general consensus that hi-vi clothing, white helmets, and additional lights helps sometimes, maybe even often, but not always. I read in an article once about cars turning in front of fire trucks with lights on and sirens going. It didn't mention of the paint was red or Hi-Viz, but the point was made. I usually am in Hi-Viz and a white helmet as a small part of my risk management strategy, and hope that it helps at least some of the time.

    I didn't see any mention of movement in the discussion. The human eye/brain is attracted to movement, part of that basic hunter/prey instinct hard wired into us. There is a tool in my toolbox that I was introduced to as a "gunner's weave", although it probably goes by other names. That is a movement from side to side within your lane when observing another vehicle that you want to make sure sees you. A motorcycle moving in a straight line tends to be a single spot of light, and it is more difficult for drivers to judge speed and distance than with a car or truck that they are familiar with. Whether you are in all black with dim lights, or fully decked out with Hi-Viz and auxiliary lighting, movement itself may trigger that hard wired synapse in a driver. I'm sure it doesn't always work, but I have had vehicles stop making a turn in front of me after they had started to move. Maybe it was my gunner's weave, maybe it was my clothing, or light, or maybe something else. All I know is occasionally vehicles starting to turn in front of me will stop. There is not a perfect solution, think of those fire trucks, but I believe a purposeful weave is a useful tool.

  8. #37
    Registered User WWeldin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownrich View Post

    I didn't see any mention of movement in the discussion. The human eye/brain is attracted to movement, part of that basic hunter/prey instinct hard wired into us. There is a tool in my toolbox that I was introduced to as a "gunner's weave", although it probably goes by other names. That is a movement from side to side within your lane when observing another vehicle that you want to make sure sees you. A motorcycle moving in a straight line tends to be a single spot of light, and it is more difficult for drivers to judge speed and distance than with a car or truck that they are familiar with. Whether you are in all black with dim lights, or fully decked out with Hi-Viz and auxiliary lighting, movement itself may trigger that hard wired synapse in a driver. I'm sure it doesn't always work, but I have had vehicles stop making a turn in front of me after they had started to move. Maybe it was my gunner's weave, maybe it was my clothing, or light, or maybe something else. All I know is occasionally vehicles starting to turn in front of me will stop. There is not a perfect solution, think of those fire trucks, but I believe a purposeful weave is a useful tool.
    I affectionately refer to your "gunner's weave" as a Crazy Ivan. The Hunt For Red October should ring a bell.

    Out on the big road, with all the traffic flowing about the same speed, the eyes catches the aggressive lane change. It is only natural.

    At times, I have done my Crazy Ivan with extreme enthusiam and end up passing the the car, ready to turn left, and seeing the deer-in-the-headlights look on that driver. It is almost an expression of "what the hell is wrong with that guy? Sheesh. But, it works (most of the time.) A lot of the looks I get are too nasty to describe on this forum, which may be from the thought that I swerved at them, but I digress.

    Thanks for the good contribution to this thread.

    Cheers,
    William
    2000 R1200C, 2019 R1250RT

  9. #38
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=PGlaves;1169688]Ditto if he used his high beam during daylight.[/QUOTE

    The NYS DMV safety council strongly recommends high beam daytime use on motorcycles.

    Friedle
    Ride fast safely

  10. #39

    head light

    [QUOTE=Friedle;1169734]
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Ditto if he used his high beam during daylight.[/QUOTE

    The NYS DMV safety council strongly recommends high beam daytime use on motorcycles.

    Friedle
    Friedle:

    Doesn't New York law require a motor cycle to have the headlight on at all times? Anyway, isn't the use of the high beam a nuisance to oncoming traffic? I ride a lot in New York and wonder what is the best option.

  11. #40
    Tutum amicus r184's Avatar
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    Unfortunately sometimes no matter what you do, wear or turn on, there are drivers (too many) who just won't or refuse to see you.

    These are the same drivers who don't see railroad crossings with trains passing by; fire trucks parked in the road at an accident (with their emergency lights flashing); Uniformed motor officer standing in plain view pointing that radar gun at them; road closed/flooded signs or that motorcyclist wearing a neon yellow riding suit & riding a bike with multiple bright lights.

    The safety recommendations here are good and do help. But when possible there are times where you just need to identify that bugged eyed/texting/mouth breather/distracted driver and keep as far away from them as you can.

    (Nice little rant, I rather enjoyed that)
    No Matter Where I went, There I was...

  12. #41
    Registered User pappy35's Avatar
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    Riding out here by the rally site to and from dinner I've had an unusual opportunity to see a LOT of bikes buzzing about. While I'm all-in on hi-viz as I've stated, there is simply no way to argue against that fact that LED auxiliary lighting, both up front and brake lights, makes a HUGE difference for motorcycle visibility. Back home I don't hardly ever see bikes so it was hard to draw a conclusion. I tell you what, first thing I'm doing tomorrow morning after registering and signing up for demo rides is heading right to Admore and then to Denali. My wife will not be pleased. 8-D
    '13 R1200RT 90th Anniversary Edition

  13. #42
    [QUOTE=FELAW;1169743]
    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post

    Friedle:

    Doesn't New York law require a motor cycle to have the headlight on at all times? Anyway, isn't the use of the high beam a nuisance to oncoming traffic? I ride a lot in New York and wonder what is the best option.
    Federal law requires full time headlight use on motorcycles built after (1978 I think). As for high beam being a nuisance my take is not in daylight except maybe in a tunnel. I ALWAYS ride with high beam during daylight hours. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 700,000 miles daytime riding out of about 950,000 total. I can recall only a couple of times an oncoming car ever flashed lights at me with my high beam.

    To get a real take on this ride ahead of somebody and have them run their high beam and then their low beam. Observe his or her bike in your mirror. I bet you choose high beam.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  14. #43
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=FELAW;1169743]
    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post

    Friedle:

    Doesn't New York law require a motor cycle to have the headlight on at all times? Anyway, isn't the use of the high beam a nuisance to oncoming traffic? I ride a lot in New York and wonder what is the best option.
    Yes, NY law does require full time headlights on a motorcycle. NY DMV recommends daytime high beam use to increase oncoming motorist awareness of YOU. It used to be if you saw an oncoming headlight it was either a locomotive or a motorcycle. Now with almost every car having daytime running lights motorcycles are getting lost in the oncoming mass of many headlights. Your high beam is unlikely to blind an oncoming motorist during the day, but just may provide an edge to distinguish you from the herd of oncoming four wheelers. In any event, can't hurt any. An added benefit is that if your low beam burns out while you are returning home and it is getting dark, now you only have your high beam to get home where you might be blinding every oncoming vehicle on your way home.

    A continuing theme of all my rider classes is that riding a motorcycle on public streets is primarily a mental activity that involves some physical skills. The mental aspect is the hard part of riding. The above discussion, and understanding the implications, is but a small part of that mental strategy. Go to the circus and you can see bears and chimpanzees riding motorcycles. The physical part of riding is the easy part.

    Friedle
    Ride fast safely

  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by brownrich View Post
    I didn't see any mention of movement in the discussion. .
    I mentioned movement and lights in the very first post.
    Buck in Greensboro, NC
    2013 R 1200 RT Midnight Blue - traded, 2014 R 1200 RT Ebony Metallic, 2016 S 1000 XR

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by r184 View Post
    Unfortunately sometimes no matter what you do, wear or turn on, there are drivers (too many) who just won't or refuse to see you.

    These are the same drivers who don't see railroad crossings with trains passing by; fire trucks parked in the road at an accident (with their emergency lights flashing); Uniformed motor officer standing in plain view pointing that radar gun at them; road closed/flooded signs or that motorcyclist wearing a neon yellow riding suit & riding a bike with multiple bright lights.

    The safety recommendations here are good and do help. But when possible there are times where you just need to identify that bugged eyed/texting/mouth breather/distracted driver and keep as far away from them as you can.

    (Nice little rant, I rather enjoyed that)
    Hmmmm how to respond. Yesterday I was in my car making a right turn from a stop sign. Itís near where I live and can be a tricky intersection as there are cars parked blocking an ideal view to the right. I exercised all due diligence and executed my right turn. I immediately looked in my rear view mirror and saw a MC turning onto the street I had just left. I donít think I cut him off but I sure as hell didnít see him when I turned! Maybe he was speeding and closed the (blind) gap THAT quickly maybe I actually didnít see him. From my brief glimpse, he wasnít wearing anything ďconspicuous ď but my point is, I didnít see him! Had he been asserting some unwritten right to go even FASTER and ASSUMED everyone would avoid him, he might be dead now. Iím not a mouthbreathing texting stupid driver who is unaware of or willfully ignoring motorcycles. I ride thousands of miles a year and try to drive hyper aware of motorcycles. No need for hostility, anyone can be the culprit and anyone the victim. I ride as if Iím not seen and use clothing speed brakes and light to be seen, evade, avoid. When there is a close call I make sure the driver finds out what he almost did ie I make my presence known, usually not hostily but in a way that the driver realizes I WAS THERE! As a driver I try to maximize my awareness (look twice for example, turn my head when changing lanes, etc. ) as a rider I use every tool to either be seen or get away with being invisible lol!

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