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Thread: R1200RT - Riding Gear for Hot Weather

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by strataj View Post
    The best isn't cheap but it's the best https://www.motoport.com/product/ult...r-mesh-jacket/ I got the pants too.

    Jay
    👍👍 to Motoport, there gear is top quality, only complaint is hi-viz jacket has faded badly, patina or a seagull got me
    I wear a cooling vest and soak in water neck gator on hot days, good for about 2.5to 3 hours in dry temps
    LeeParks short gloves in warm weather
    Sidi Allroad gortex boots
    Pretty happy with this setup

    Jim

  2. #32
    Whether or not to wear mesh is on par with the "which oil/tire is best" religious wars of motorcycle message boards.

    The general argument against mesh in very high temps (repeated at least half a dozen times here) is that "you will sweat too much and dehydrate if you ride in mesh and it's too hot and or humid." To this I say poppycock. And balderdash. And any other old-timey fighting words I can think of. It never made any sense to me. The more of your sweat that evaporates, the less you will sweat. This is basic physiology. You won't sweat more simply because you are evaporating it faster riding in the wind - there is no amount of sweat on your skin your body is trying to maintain so it will replace it faster. If you evaporate a lot and it removes heat (by conduction from the skin and evaporative cooling) your body temperature will drop and you will sweat less.

    Lots of people die from heat stroke in "sweat lodges" where they are in high heat with no air flow. Plenty of people also suffer heat injuries in hot tubs and spas. So why would anyone recommend less cooling while riding a motorcycle? The basic protocol for treating heat injuries is to get airflow over the skin as fast as possible if other cooling methods aren't available. It only makes sense that one would want to do this while riding.

    The answer to "how do I ride safely in extreme heat" isn't "dress warmer." It's "drink more."

    One of the best discussions I've read form someone who asked an expert is here https://advrider.com/f/threads/mesh-...rees-f.396906/. Few people know more about how to handle heat stress than scientists at the Soldier Systems Lab in Natick, MA - the people who are responsible for keeping our soldiers safe in the desert while humping large rucks. The post author contacted them for advice. One of my neighbors also works there and he rode for years before cancer took him last summer. He wore mesh. Read the second half of the post for details, but the summary of the expert:

    His bottom line...

    Above 100 degrees - Wear mesh
    For some additional science, the National Association of Athletic Trainers has guidelines for preventing heat illness in athletes. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164365/. They remind trainers that the guidelines are based on athletes wearing a t-shirt and shorts. When it's hot and humid their recommendation isn't "have athletes put on more clothes," it is:

    The most important factors are to limit intensity and duration of activity, limit the amount of clothing and equipment worn, increase the number and length of rest breaks, and encourage proper hydration.
    .

    The idea that mesh leads to dehydration faster than full-coverage clothing when it's really hot or humid is just flat wrong. If anything, what happens is that mesh works, people feel more comfortable, sweat evaporates, so people forget to stop and take breaks. But bundling up in less-ventilated clothing isn't the solution to that problem. Stopping and drinking more is.

    My strategy: any time it's above 80 for a significant portion of the day, I wear mesh. In 95% humidity or in 107° dry Arizona heat. My Darien and AD-1 pants are fine up to 80°, but after that it's mesh, mesh, and more mesh, with wicking undergarments.

    Good luck.
    MOA#: 218327
    2019 R1250RT, Mars Red
    Retired: 2002 Kawasaki VN750; 1989 Kawasaki KLR650, 1980 Yamaha DT175

  3. #33

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpysquatch View Post
    Whether or not to wear mesh is on par with the "which oil/tire is best" religious wars of motorcycle message boards.

    The general argument against mesh in very high temps (repeated at least half a dozen times here) is that "you will sweat too much and dehydrate if you ride in mesh and it's too hot and or humid." To this I say poppycock. And balderdash. And any other old-timey fighting words I can think of. It never made any sense to me. The more of your sweat that evaporates, the less you will sweat. This is basic physiology. You won't sweat more simply because you are evaporating it faster riding in the wind - there is no amount of sweat on your skin your body is trying to maintain so it will replace it faster. If you evaporate a lot and it removes heat (by conduction from the skin and evaporative cooling) your body temperature will drop and you will sweat less.

    Lots of people die from heat stroke in "sweat lodges" where they are in high heat with no air flow. Plenty of people also suffer heat injuries in hot tubs and spas. So why would anyone recommend less cooling while riding a motorcycle? The basic protocol for treating heat injuries is to get airflow over the skin as fast as possible if other cooling methods aren't available. It only makes sense that one would want to do this while riding.

    The answer to "how do I ride safely in extreme heat" isn't "dress warmer." It's "drink more."

    One of the best discussions I've read form someone who asked an expert is here https://advrider.com/f/threads/mesh-...rees-f.396906/. Few people know more about how to handle heat stress than scientists at the Soldier Systems Lab in Natick, MA - the people who are responsible for keeping our soldiers safe in the desert while humping large rucks. The post author contacted them for advice. One of my neighbors also works there and he rode for years before cancer took him last summer. He wore mesh. Read the second half of the post for details, but the summary of the expert:



    For some additional science, the National Association of Athletic Trainers has guidelines for preventing heat illness in athletes. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164365/. They remind trainers that the guidelines are based on athletes wearing a t-shirt and shorts. When it's hot and humid their recommendation isn't "have athletes put on more clothes," it is:

    .

    The idea that mesh leads to dehydration faster than full-coverage clothing when it's really hot or humid is just flat wrong. If anything, what happens is that mesh works, people feel more comfortable, sweat evaporates, so people forget to stop and take breaks. But bundling up in less-ventilated clothing isn't the solution to that problem. Stopping and drinking more is.

    My strategy: any time it's above 80 for a significant portion of the day, I wear mesh. In 95% humidity or in 107° dry Arizona heat. My Darien and AD-1 pants are fine up to 80°, but after that it's mesh, mesh, and more mesh, with wicking undergarments.

    Good luck.
    What I love about this place is getting input from different sides. Ever seen "Fiddler on the Roof"? Remember where there's an argument that breaks out and one side tells him their story with his response "You're right!". Quickly followed be the other side's argument and a "You're right!". And another one being bothered by the contracdicting confirmation, followed by "You're right, too!" :-D

    I'll follow up on those links you sent. I'm not a rocket scientist, but the concept of wearing mesh with plenty of air flow through it AND a wet cooling vest underneath to do the evaborating and not the skin seems to make sense to me. Have to try it all. Already got the mesh jacket, now just have to find a cheap cooling vest to try it with. Own testing done.

    All that to say, I'm good looking at different solutions offered and then drawing conclusions from my own experience. Simple as that.

    So, again, thanks for weighing in. I love science...

  5. #35
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    I live where riding in July-August involves 100+ with low humidity on a regular basis. I had worked outdoors smelling creosote poles most of my career under same conditions. Have lived in 80% humidity 100 degree locations and 30% humidity 100 degree locations...they are completely different.

    That said, both camps are close to being correct. Wearing tank tops in the sun and not sweating caused issues, wearing Nomex fire retardant long sleeved shirts where you did sweat a lot also did.
    I have ridden with no gear,some gear,lot's of gear and know what's good for me. Had an RT, it didn't change my gear selection compared to a GS, or a naked R or S.

    Hydration always helped and is key. Also conditioning the body for extremes was key. You can't stay in climate controlled environments all week and then expect to operate in extreme heat very well. Building up heat resistance should be in the toolkit.

    We have mesh, ventilated and some not so ventilated gear. When we wear mesh, with a wet vest underneath in low humidity, the vest dries in short order and you have a hot insulated layer now. Wetting often helps, but not always practical at (legal)75mph crossing west TX. When we wear ventilated jackets, the evaporation slows and we can go further comfortably. I have found that mesh is good for short rides for me, but if traveling go with what will work on all the environments I intend to encounter...and mesh is not it. If caught in a long wet ride, the airflow now brings hypothermia into the mix...as bad or worse than the heat issues.
    We do wear technical fabrics and stopped wearing cotton on long rides as well...tightly whities may have you looking for MonkeyButt powder sooner
    I respect all the studies and experts , some may actually ride motorcycles in the SW heat...I'll do what has worked for me and tweak when I find it does not.

    When I see military and long time desert dwellers, they are completely covered and do not see much mesh...but that's my experiences and observations
    Steve Henson-Mod Team and SABMWRA Prez

    Be decisive, right or wrong.The road of life is paved with
    flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision~unknown

  6. #36
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Sorry, Grumpy, I just don't believe what you say about mesh. I have mesh and wear it for short rides. I can't go with mesh crossing the very hot great plains. I get dehydrated too easily on a bike and then I get A-fib, which sucks.


    Source: Fix.com Blog

    Harry
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  7. #37
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    I'd sooner take advice from this guy:

    http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...youre_hot.aspx

    Harry
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  8. #38
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    By the way, I became convinced that covering up is better in very hot temps while approaching the Salt Lake City rally in LA-style stop and crawl traffic. Raising my faceshield while moving didn't cool me off, it made me hotter. Proof enough for me...

    Harry
    My fleet: 2015 R1200GS, 2017 Toyota Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    I'd sooner take advice from this guy:

    http://www.soundrider.com/archive/sa...youre_hot.aspx

    Harry



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  10. #40
    It's a great topic to disagree on. And I do understand the issues from very hot weather above 99° or so. But the idea that closing up jacket vents will stop heat gain usually doesn't pan out in the real world. I worked for a time in a glassblower's shop, and radiational heating around the open kiln mouths was absolutely an issue. The garments donned to reduce that were reflective to one degree or another and also insulated. Most motorcycle jackets are neither, and that to me is the issue. An uninsulated motorcycle jacket might only remove a tiny bit of the radiational heating and some of the convective heating. But think fabric or leather probably does more harm by reducing your ability to cool through evaporation than it helps by reducing inbound heat load.

    And if I were riding my old cruiser without a windshield, I'd be 100% with you guys staying away from mesh above 99°. But this thread started because of a concern that our RTs block too much airflow, which I have found to be the case and hate in the Summer but love in the cold. So the tupperware and windscreen are doing the job for us of reducing convective heating above 99°, we don't have to add additional clothing to that. Perhaps then, I can add nuance to my experiences in the desert and in humid Summers.

    Above 80° I usually switch to mesh gear and ride with the windscreen low. Above 99°, rather than switching out of mesh, I raise the screen and reduce the airflow (though I usually keep it low enough to at least make the top vent of my helmet work). On an RT with the ability to adjust airflow, I still don't find it persuasive that mesh dehydrates you faster.

    Last Summer in Arizona, this proved to be the key to reasonable comfort and reasonable ability to stay hydrated. I found myself feeling much better after several hours at 109° with the screen up and my jacket ventilated, than I did with the screen down and a full textile jacket zipped.
    MOA#: 218327
    2019 R1250RT, Mars Red
    Retired: 2002 Kawasaki VN750; 1989 Kawasaki KLR650, 1980 Yamaha DT175

  11. #41
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    In addition to my normal summer gear, I carry my cool vest and a plastic bag. During my first stop after things start heating up (usually 125 – 175 miles) I stretch, get some gas then put the vest in the plastic bag and fill it with a large bottle of cold drinking water from the convenience store’s cooler. I fill myself with a second bottle. By the time I finish my drinking my bottle of water the vest is saturated with cold water. I put it on and let me tell you the feeling of the cold water on a hot Texas day is great. Yes it evaporates and keeps me quite cool. The whole process is aided by the fact that the water comes straight from the cooler. Oh, I get wet in the process, but the evaporation keeps everything under control. The practice is assisted if you are wearing a shirt with good wicking properties.

    E.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by easy View Post
    In addition to my normal summer gear, I carry my cool vest and a plastic bag. During my first stop after things start heating up (usually 125 – 175 miles) I stretch, get some gas then put the vest in the plastic bag and fill it with a large bottle of cold drinking water from the convenience store’s cooler. I fill myself with a second bottle. By the time I finish my drinking my bottle of water the vest is saturated with cold water. I put it on and let me tell you the feeling of the cold water on a hot Texas day is great. Yes it evaporates and keeps me quite cool. The whole process is aided by the fact that the water comes straight from the cooler. Oh, I get wet in the process, but the evaporation keeps everything under control. The practice is assisted if you are wearing a shirt with good wicking properties.

    E.
    Thanks for weighing in with your experience. I take it you wear a mesh jacket? I just installed a shorty windshield, which improves the wind flow toward helmet and the upper body. As indicated earlier, at the moment the plan is to wear mesh jackets and pants and then do what you described, putting a cooling vest underneath the jacket. Hydrating ourselves and the cooling vests frequently to make up for any liquid loss. Seems like that is the ticket for riding in the hot Texas summers. :-) We'll see how it works out for us.
    Tech on Two Wheels: 2018 R1200RT Mars Red (Mine), 2018 R1200RT Black (My Wife's), 2004 R1150R (Mine)

  13. #43
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    Grumpy, I agree with you. I have tried to wear a regular jacket, and try control the heat with ventilation, but I thought I was gonna die because I just couldn't move enough air through the jacket to evaporate the sweat. At least with mesh I can get the air flow I need. The bad side is it might be too much air flow, but them I combat that with a long sleeve t-shirt under the mesh, and by raising or lowering the wind shield, and lots of water! I have a Camelback, plus room to carry a water bottle.

  14. #44
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    My wife and I took a 3 1/2 hour ride yesterday in relatively humid Texas temperatures. Late afternoon hovered around 90-92 degrees and with the humidity felt much warmer.

    I just got a shorty windshield in from Aeroflow, which I tested on my RT first before getting a second one for my wife's RT. In the lowest position, I felt a bit more air flow toward the upper body, but not the blast you would get from standing up on the bike. So, while it is an improvement over the standard windshield air flow, it is clear that even with the mesh jacket, we will need to do something.

    As a test, we stopped and got our t-shirts wet, which helped and is the reason why we are going to look for cooling vests next to lengthen the cooling effect. We'll also get the shorty windshield for my wife, to help improve airflow for her as well.

    I doubt that with anything other than mesh we could improve upon the full fairing situation in the summer. With all-year riding in Texas, when we're moving into the colder months, the shielding from the fairing will be a tremendous benefit. Until then, we're sticking with the mesh and cooling vests, supported by the bit of more air flow from a shorty windshield.
    Tech on Two Wheels: 2018 R1200RT Mars Red (Mine), 2018 R1200RT Black (My Wife's), 2004 R1150R (Mine)

  15. #45
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    I was revisiting this and guess I need to define mesh from my view.

    We have several brands of jackets, some full textile,some a mix of textile and vented material, and then full on mesh that you can put a straw through. Here, those type jackets will dehydrate you quickly in July-August if you do not keep up with fluid intake.
    The Vanson and Joe Rocket mesh definitely are mesh in my mind with very defined holes. The Dainese,BMW, Rev'it, and First Gear among others, have panels of breathable fabric..I guess that could be considered mesh to some.
    I do not wear the fishnet mesh on long rides as it is just way to open, do wear the breathable paneled versions and layer under if hitting colder temps. I typically wear an Olympia Dakar textile, however the breathable paneled Dainese will be my choice heading northeast from prior trips thru MS, TN and Pennsyltuckey and expected humidity from all the floods and rain. I'll layer when needed.

    Anyways...stay cool
    Steve Henson-Mod Team and SABMWRA Prez

    Be decisive, right or wrong.The road of life is paved with
    flat squirrels who couldn't make a decision~unknown

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