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Thread: MOAners.... why millennials are not joining us.

  1. #31
    Registered User powwow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visian View Post
    The secret is *used* BMWs... they’re one of the best values in the market and a perfect opportunity for us to share our knowledge and help out first-time buyers find them, fix them and ride them... and then move on up to newer/new models.

    We probably can’t get everyone with this strategy, but there are a significant number of younger buyers who want a nice bike that lasts and lasts....
    Funny...that was exactly my thought as well. What a great way to attract a new generation of BMW riders and utilize the incredible skills of the current membership.
    Larry Gregerson; Bend, OR
    MOA #93031

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by powwow View Post
    Funny...that was exactly my thought as well. What a great way to attract a new generation of BMW riders and utilize the incredible skills of the current membership.
    What’s needed is a focused and disciplined program to do this, and I think the other half of the secret is to enfranchise chartered clubs and dealers. Dealers *love* used bike sales, BMW NA does only earns their pay based on new unit sales.

    I keep getting told that our Regional Coordinators are doing this, but I have not personally witnessed it.

    And of course, it takes a budget. Maybe there is a way to get the MOAF to help chartered clubs with funds for training days, have some 310s there from BMW NA and the local dealer there with a selection of used bikes from their showroom.

    Some good places to do this *might* be MotoAmerica race venues... or at chartered club rallies... or at dealer open houses....

  3. #33
    Rally Rat 1074's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visian View Post
    The secret is *used* BMWs... they’re one of the best values in the market and a perfect opportunity for us to share our knowledge and help out first-time buyers find them, fix them and ride them... and then move on up to newer/new models.

    We probably can’t get everyone with this strategy, but there are a significant number of younger buyers who want a nice bike that lasts and lasts....
    Absolutely! There are plenty of used BMWs out there for less than $4k or so. We have in our midst, a large group dedicated to the Airheads. Although you have t hunt them down, you can get a respectable one at a decent price. Further, the price of earlier K models has gone down far enough to be considered.
    So when I see posts about buying the latest high dollar farkel for the latest model bike I have to think about getting back to the basics that I experienced when I was in my early twenties, didn't have a lot of money to spend, and rode for the basic enjoyment of riding. The young people that I talk to are in the same boat that I was in and because of money restraints, and a slightly different concept of purpose for riding, and just may need to be "shown the way" to the concept of doing most of your own maintenance and the simplicity of a basic Airhead.
    Boxerbruce

  4. #34
    Registered User jandhumphreyme's Avatar
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    I see this membership things as somewhat of a "tempest in a teacup" What does declining membership really mean? What will go away or get cut out that everyone relies on now?

    I can't help but believe that without anything to sell your not going to have many customers. What is the MOA selling to younger people? A magazine subscription, some discounts, a roadside assistance program, reimbursement for motorcycle training, getaway's and the annual rally? Not much to a generation who consumes media in the palm of their hand and can find the info in the magazine on at least 10 different websites for free, and not a lot of financial resources for expensive bikes. Lot of chatter about cost; BMW's are too expensive for younger people, true, they are expensive so why then why would you develop a "getaway" program, where event costs are $100 per person, and room rates are well over $100 per night, pretty expensive for a weekend, don't see that attracting many new younger members.

    Seems pretty hard to me to maintain a "club" type atmosphere when people only get together once a year, as some have pointed out "to camp in the mud". It's a blast, it's too short, it's an event, but not something to promote deeper bonding of a group of people. Sure some do develop long term friendships, I do not think it's the norm. So what is a "Club"? Webster's defines club as; "an association of persons for some common object usually jointly supported and meeting periodically". I guess once per year meets the "periodically" requirement. I cannot help but believe the way for the MOA to grow is to actively promote local charter clubs and events. Local clubs are better suited to adapt to regional needs and concerns of all types of riders, if there is a greater number of off roaders in an area, great the club can focus on that, road riders, racing and track days, custom building, same thing. Local clubs can promote inexpensive family events, yes camping in the mud but with Mom, Dad and the kids, if one of the parents doesnt ride so what, it can be a family event where the riding parent can sneak off for a few hours to ride, train or whatever. I can see the MOA as providing leadership, organizational skills, promotional assistance, maybe training opportunities at regional sponsored events.
    So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
    And we never even know we have the key

  5. #35
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    For your consideration,


    How would (you) sell them this “used” bike when (you) keep chasing them “off the lawn”?









    Instead of being “strident” on riding attire, try to explain that staying covered up, in whatever fashion they can afford, will help in a mishap.











    Try being nice and welcoming to other riders. I have found each brand of bike had a “stigma” attached to it.


    om
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  6. #36
    Rally Rat
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    For your consideration,


    How would (you) sell them this “used” bike when (you) keep chasing them “off the lawn”?









    Instead of being “strident” on riding attire, try to explain that staying covered up, in whatever fashion they can afford, will help in a mishap.











    Try being nice and welcoming to other riders. I have found each brand of bike had a “stigma” attached to it.


    om


    So, ……………. if they're interested in my used bike, they're politely at the front door - not figuratively 'trespassing on my lawn.' Manners are learned and respect is earned.

    Oh yeah - let's water-down the importance of ATGATT for the sake of recruiting those with 'snowflake egos.'. That way, they're riding experience will be stattistically even shorter than normal, once crashes take their toll.

    As for those pesky 'stigmas,' in Japan, they remove that before crating up for shipping. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda."

  7. #37
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    So, ……………. if they're interested in my used bike, they're politely at the front door - not figuratively 'trespassing on my lawn.' Manners are learned and respect is earned.

    Oh yeah - let's water-down the importance of ATGATT for the sake of recruiting those with 'snowflake egos.'. That way, they're riding experience will be stattistically even shorter than normal, once crashes take their toll.

    As for those pesky 'stigmas,' in Japan, they remove that before crating up for shipping. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda."
    “The beatings will continue until morale improves”
    OM
    "You can do good or you can do well. Sooner or later they make you choose." MI5
    Mod Squad
    2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhumphreyme View Post
    I see this membership things as somewhat of a "tempest in a teacup" What does declining membership really mean? What will go away or get cut out that everyone relies on now?

    I can't help but believe that without anything to sell your not going to have many customers. What is the MOA selling to younger people? A magazine subscription, some discounts, a roadside assistance program, reimbursement for motorcycle training, getaway's and the annual rally? Not much to a generation who consumes media in the palm of their hand and can find the info in the magazine on at least 10 different websites for free, and not a lot of financial resources for expensive bikes. Lot of chatter about cost; BMW's are too expensive for younger people, true, they are expensive so why then why would you develop a "getaway" program, where event costs are $100 per person, and room rates are well over $100 per night, pretty expensive for a weekend, don't see that attracting many new younger members.

    Seems pretty hard to me to maintain a "club" type atmosphere when people only get together once a year, as some have pointed out "to camp in the mud". It's a blast, it's too short, it's an event, but not something to promote deeper bonding of a group of people. Sure some do develop long term friendships, I do not think it's the norm. So what is a "Club"? Webster's defines club as; "an association of persons for some common object usually jointly supported and meeting periodically". I guess once per year meets the "periodically" requirement. I cannot help but believe the way for the MOA to grow is to actively promote local charter clubs and events. Local clubs are better suited to adapt to regional needs and concerns of all types of riders, if there is a greater number of off roaders in an area, great the club can focus on that, road riders, racing and track days, custom building, same thing. Local clubs can promote inexpensive family events, yes camping in the mud but with Mom, Dad and the kids, if one of the parents doesnt ride so what, it can be a family event where the riding parent can sneak off for a few hours to ride, train or whatever. I can see the MOA as providing leadership, organizational skills, promotional assistance, maybe training opportunities at regional sponsored events.
    Your questions are very complex, and sorry for quoting your whole post, but the simple answer is that the nature of clubs (or more accurately, the community experience and resulting benefits that people derive from it) are changing and I am not sure we are.

    Three major drivers of this change are social media, mobility and cooperative enterprise technologies, and I would rather not bore you with discussions of pretty radical changes to our “club” model that I think are needed. Instead, I started this thread.

    All I can say is that there are things we could be doing to increase our relevance to a whole bunch of people, regardless of age, that we are not pursuing. I’ve outlined many of these ideas in hundreds of posts here, they will appear with a search on my username. Others I have shared with our leaders and staff... and all I get back is reasons “why not.”

    If you don’t see declining membership as a problem, there is not much I can say to convince you that it is.

    Ian

  9. #39
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visian View Post

    And of course, it takes a budget. Maybe there is a way to get the MOAF to help chartered clubs with funds for training days, ...
    Hello Ian,

    This can be done...just by asking the MOAF. May 4th of this year, I taught a class of Yankee Beemers the new one day Advanced Rider Course (updated) at the MSF site in Troy, NY. (Capital Area Motorcycle School) The MSF site offered the YBs a discounted rate. YB president Duncan Cooper negotiated a deal with the MOAF for any member who successfully completed the course, and submitted their completion card to the MOAF, to receive a $50 rebate per person. We had a full course of 12 riders. BTW, YB dues are $30 per year. By taking the ARCu you actually MADE $20 while learning to ride better, AND had an enjoyable experience as well I hope this program will continue into the future and perhaps serve as an inspiration to other chartered MOA clubs.

    Michael Friedle
    MSF 27713
    Yankee Beemer
    Ride fast safely

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    Hello Ian,

    This can be done...just by asking the MOAF. May 4th of this year, I taught a class of Yankee Beemers the new one day Advanced Rider Course (updated) at the MSF site in Troy, NY. (Capital Area Motorcycle School) The MSF site offered the YBs a discounted rate. YB president Duncan Cooper negotiated a deal with the MOAF for any member who successfully completed the course, and submitted their completion card to the MOAF, to receive a $50 rebate per person. We had a full course of 12 riders. BTW, YB dues are $30 per year. By taking the ARCu you actually MADE $20 while learning to ride better, AND had an enjoyable experience as well I hope this program will continue into the future and perhaps serve as an inspiration to other chartered MOA clubs.
    Good on you, Michael! I think the part of coordinating with the MSF was really smart!

    I am betting that if we could define this process, add in some local promo (especially through dealers, the clubs and the MSF) to make younger riders aware, and get 10-15 clubs across the country to follow this pattern... a number of good things would happen.

    A few years ago an offer was made to provide a trailer-full of G310 available for events like this. If we could get enough events going to make it worth BMW’s while, I bet they’d pitch in. It’s a great way to sell new and used bikes and to make new members.

    This sounds like a great way for Regional Coordinators and Ambassadors to work together.

  11. #41
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    Ian, I mentioned this program at the Regional Coordinator chartered club meeting in Saratoga Springs that Frank Florio organized and Ray Tubbs attended. Frank did attend the class, but I never heard a thing from the MOA about the results, the organizing, advertising or the future possibilities. But then again, serving on the MOA BoD for eight years, three times as a National Rally Chair, top ten recruiter for ten years, and 22 years as a MSF Instructor/Rider Coach...what the hell do I know?

    My enthusiasm for helping the MOA has dwindled in direct proportion to my feeling that the Emperor is NAKED, not wearing fine clothing. I have grown weary of tilting at the windmill. Too many other things to do.

    I love helping people learn to ride, or ride better. I no longer enjoy banging my head against the MOA wall.

    Friedle
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    Ride fast safely

  12. #42
    Rally Rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    Ian, I mentioned this program at the Regional Coordinator chartered club meeting in Saratoga Springs that Frank Florio organized and Ray Tubbs attended. Frank did attend the class, but I never heard a thing from the MOA about the results, the organizing, advertising or the future possibilities. But then again, serving on the MOA BoD for eight years, three times as a National Rally Chair, top ten recruiter for ten years, and 22 years as a MSF Instructor/Rider Coach...what the hell do I know?

    My enthusiasm for helping the MOA has dwindled in direct proportion to my feeling that the Emperor is NAKED, not wearing fine clothing. I have grown weary of tilting at the windmill. Too many other things to do.

    I love helping people learn to ride, or ride better. I no longer enjoy banging my head against the MOA wall.

    Friedle
    Ambassador
    #15249
    Lifetime Member


    Amen.

  13. #43
    #4869 DennisDarrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    My enthusiasm for helping the MOA has dwindled in direct proportion to my feeling that the Emperor is NAKED, not wearing fine clothing. I have grown weary of tilting at the windmill. Too many other things to do.

    I love helping people learn to ride, or ride better. I no longer enjoy banging my head against the MOA wall.

    Friedle
    Ambassador
    #15249
    Lifetime Member

    I truly wonder what happens to the fine folks that end up SERVING us on the board..... Are they the ones that hang around for their 9 years and then move over to get the benefits of the BMWMOAF????...…...Look at the folks over there on the board and offices and they are the same folks that were with us during the huge losses of the "INVESTMENT ACCOUNT" and after...….

    I have become just like the above thoughts. Tired of getting my words and thoughts twisted by those who know so little but expound so loudly...….. Yes, like many, I read and understand; but say nothing cause am tired of it. Having watched for all these years and seeing the same thing happen over and over again...……….SO, THANKS FOR THOSE WHO KEEP TRYING TO KEEP US ALIVE...…...

  14. #44
    Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197 bogthebasher's Avatar
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    So... what the heck happened with the GS Giants? Was I asleep when they left?

    I could not help but notice that the majority of the Giants were ~one generation younger than the average MOA member (even though the costs for bikes and accessories are pricey), and thought they always seemed to be having fun. I believe they were a great addition to the national rallies and enjoyed watching what they did and noticed their obviously great camaraderie. I don't ride a GS just like I don't ride a scooter but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the bikes and the people who ride them.

    Is there a public version of what happened? Would we not learn something from this that might inform us for our future actions? Is this though merely a symptom of the malaise that has befallen the club? Are we afraid and unwilling to change?
    Ken Dittrick
    2008 R1200RT (Biarritz Blau)


    Excuses are the rocks upon which our dreams are crushed - Tim Fargo

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by bogthebasher View Post
    So... what the heck happened with the GS Giants? Was I asleep when they left?

    I could not help but notice that the majority of the Giants were ~one generation younger than the average MOA member (even though the costs for bikes and accessories are pricey), and thought they always seemed to be having fun. I believe they were a great addition to the national rallies and enjoyed watching what they did and noticed their obviously great camaraderie. I don't ride a GS just like I don't ride a scooter but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the bikes and the people who ride them.

    Is there a public version of what happened? Would we not learn something from this that might inform us for our future actions? Is this though merely a symptom of the malaise that has befallen the club? Are we afraid and unwilling to change?
    There is no public version. The obvious version is some folks in the BMW MOA or rally hierarchy tangled with some folks in the Giants hierarchy over some trivial or not so trivial detail about the operation of the Giants facility at Salt Lake City. So the Giants took their toys and went home: either because they decided to or were told to. It is a huge loss for the BMW MOA. Apparently the adults were not in the room at the time. Just my opinion since I have no inside knowledge.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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