MOAners.... why millennials are not joining us.

powwow · May 12, 2019

Most people like to hang out with folks of their own generation (or younger, but not older) and that is what creates a challenge for the MOA. Our club has aged and, IMHO, is one of the primary reasons young people are probably not very interested in joining. They want to hang out with their peers, not their parents. They don't want to show up at a meeting where 90% (99%?) of the attendees could be their parents.

I would really wonder whether an enterprising, young BMW rider needs to start another MOA...but one aimed at their own generation. There would be times (i.e. the National) where members of both clubs would participate, but members of both local clubs would primarily meet within their own demographic. The new club could certainly fall under the current MOA banner but operate as a separate group.

Just a thought.

barryg · May 12, 2019

A local BMW club that had been quite active for maybe almost 40 years is starting to drastically change. It seems like just 20 years ago their rally seemed to average 150-250 depending on the weather. Lots of kids and grandkids; and programs to entertain them . Last year the weather was perfect . The attendance was about 80 and no children or grandchildren. The rally seemed pretty lifeless. The times, they are a changing.

barryg · May 12, 2019

Oh, another thing I noticed. The rally used to have maybe 10-15 vendors; last year none. The club had all the perquisite activities listed, but for all practical purposes it was a dead rally. It seemed like the club was just going through motions, by sheer habit. These comments aren't meant to be a putdown, just reasonable observations.

Visian · May 13, 2019

powwow said:
Most people like to hang out with folks of their own generation (or younger, but not older) and that is what creates a challenge for the MOA. Our club has aged and, IMHO, is one of the primary reasons young people are probably not very interested in joining. They want to hang out with their peers, not their parents. They don't want to show up at a meeting where 90% (99%?) of the attendees could be their parents.

I would really wonder whether an enterprising, young BMW rider needs to start another MOA...but one aimed at their own generation. There would be times (i.e. the National) where members of both clubs would participate, but members of both local clubs would primarily meet within their own demographic. The new club could certainly fall under the current MOA banner but operate as a separate group.

Just a thought.

It’s a good thought, but please let me share a slightly different one.

I think that, by far and away, there are a ton of very cool and capable people in the MOA... even if they’re old. This thinking is what led to the *strategy* (hey Reece) underlying the GS Giants program. The basic ideas were to:

1) focus the offer on a style of riding that was of great interest to a wide range of members and prospective members (many of whom are young),

2) let younger people rub elbows with older people, mainly in an effort to demonstrate that not all MOA members are, um, you know....

3) put the MOA out there in social media, using the voice of our members (and not paid staff), to reach people that are not currently aware of us, and, you know... make us look cool, and last ...

4) get people to come to our national rally while giving our members the chance build something *themselves* (as opposed to the Board of Directors or special insiders) that they could be proud of and call it their own (and in the process feel like they are a part of the MOA instead of making a new MOA).

If you think about it a little, the same basic strategy could have created success for us in sport bikes, custom bikes and who-know-what-other-segment.

U-N-F-O-R-T-U-N-A-E-L-Y, this effort got looked upon by the power-that-be as something undesirable, let’s call it coloring too far outside the lines, ok?

I am not going to say any more because I think that the situation is in the process of repairing itself thanks to some members who really get it and are working hard to make whatever adjustments are required to make this work.

Let me just conclude by saying that efforts like this are not a “strategic threat” and I think that the powers that be are in the process of recognizing that. :nod

Ian

75450 · May 13, 2019

Why millennials are not joining us.

Has anyone addressed the cost of a BMW compared to Japanese bikes? When I was young, no one I knew had a BMW -- BMWs and Harleys were way too expensive, even used, for us to buy. Today, a young guy/gal could buy a used Suzuki SV650, a very nice bike, for next to nothing compared to almost any used BMW. I even tried to buy a BMW back when I was in the USAF in 1972, a 1972 R75/5, and couldn't afford it ($1850). I ended up with a new 1972 Yamaha XS650 for $1300, which turned out to be a great (but buzzy) bike which I road all the way across the USA, twice.

Don't get me wrong, I've loved the BMW boxers since I first saw one around 1968.

Visian · May 13, 2019

75450 said:
Has anyone addressed the cost of a BMW compared to Japanese bikes? .

The secret is *used* BMWs... they’re one of the best values in the market and a perfect opportunity for us to share our knowledge and help out first-time buyers find them, fix them and ride them... and then move on up to newer/new models.

We probably can’t get everyone with this strategy, but there are a significant number of younger buyers who want a nice bike that lasts and lasts....

powwow · May 13, 2019

Visian said:
It’s a good thought, but please let me share a slightly different one.

I think that, by far and away, there are a ton of very cool and capable people in the MOA... even if they’re old. This thinking is what led to the *strategy* (hey Reece) underlying the GS Giants program. The basic ideas were to:

1) focus the offer on a style of riding that was of great interest to a wide range of members and prospective members (many of whom are young),

2) let younger people rub elbows with older people, mainly in an effort to demonstrate that not all MOA members are, um, you know....

3) put the MOA out there in social media, using the voice of our members (and not paid staff), to reach people that are not currently aware of us, and, you know... make us look cool, and last ...

4) get people to come to our national rally while giving our members the chance build something *themselves* (as opposed to the Board of Directors or special insiders) that they could be proud of and call it their own (and in the process feel like they are a part of the MOA instead of making a new MOA).

If you think about it a little, the same basic strategy could have created success for us in sport bikes, custom bikes and who-know-what-other-segment.

U-N-F-O-R-T-U-N-A-E-L-Y, this effort got looked upon by the power-that-be as something undesirable, let’s call it coloring too far outside the lines, ok?

I am not going to say any more because I think that the situation is in the process of repairing itself thanks to some members who really get it and are working hard to make whatever adjustments are required to make this work.

Let me just conclude by saying that efforts like this are not a “strategic threat” and I think that the powers that be are in the process of recognizing that.

Ian

Those are some good thoughts, Ian...thanks.

glenfiddich · May 14, 2019

Visian said:
4) get people to come to our national rally while giving our members the chance build something *themselves* (as opposed to the Board of Directors or special insiders) that they could be proud of and call it their own (and in the process feel like they are a part of the MOA instead of making a new MOA).

Interesting. With a few exceptions, the feeling I often get from the "special insiders" is that they hold themselves apart and above the regular members. At events they typically sit together, dine together, etc instead of mingling with us mortals. That's management, not leadership.

Contrast that with my experience as a corpsman with Marine infantry early in my career. It was raining at Camp Lejeune NC as I huddled muddy and miserable in my fighting hole (foxhole to you army types) during a pre-deployment field exercise. A Marine slid into the hole and hunkered down next to me. I looked over and saw the two stars of a major general on his collar. Thoroughly intimidating to an 18 year old right out of high school! But he engaged me in conversation, asking if there was anything I needed to take care of my Marines during the upcoming deployment, how I was feeling, how the men were doing. He even gave me a Snickers bar before moving on to the next fighting hole. He wasn't there to talk to the officers, but instead visited and thanked every single rifleman in the company. It showed every one of us that we mattered, that our contribution was appreciated.

That was leadership!

Pete

mikegalbicka · May 14, 2019

glenfiddich said:
That was leadership!

Pete

Indeed.

riderr1150gsadv · May 14, 2019

What that Major General did was earn your respect and did not demand it.... That is leadership.

powwow · May 14, 2019

Visian said:
The secret is *used* BMWs... they’re one of the best values in the market and a perfect opportunity for us to share our knowledge and help out first-time buyers find them, fix them and ride them... and then move on up to newer/new models.

We probably can’t get everyone with this strategy, but there are a significant number of younger buyers who want a nice bike that lasts and lasts....

Funny...that was exactly my thought as well. What a great way to attract a new generation of BMW riders and utilize the incredible skills of the current membership.

Visian · May 15, 2019

powwow said:
Funny...that was exactly my thought as well. What a great way to attract a new generation of BMW riders and utilize the incredible skills of the current membership.

What’s needed is a focused and disciplined program to do this, and I think the other half of the secret is to enfranchise chartered clubs and dealers. Dealers *love* used bike sales, BMW NA does only earns their pay based on new unit sales.

I keep getting told that our Regional Coordinators are doing this, but I have not personally witnessed it. :dunno

And of course, it takes a budget. Maybe there is a way to get the MOAF to help chartered clubs with funds for training days, have some 310s there from BMW NA and the local dealer there with a selection of used bikes from their showroom.

Some good places to do this *might* be MotoAmerica race venues... or at chartered club rallies... or at dealer open houses....

1074 · May 15, 2019

Visian said:
The secret is *used* BMWs... they’re one of the best values in the market and a perfect opportunity for us to share our knowledge and help out first-time buyers find them, fix them and ride them... and then move on up to newer/new models.

We probably can’t get everyone with this strategy, but there are a significant number of younger buyers who want a nice bike that lasts and lasts....

Absolutely! There are plenty of used BMWs out there for less than $4k or so. We have in our midst, a large group dedicated to the Airheads. Although you have t hunt them down, you can get a respectable one at a decent price. Further, the price of earlier K models has gone down far enough to be considered.
So when I see posts about buying the latest high dollar farkel for the latest model bike I have to think about getting back to the basics that I experienced when I was in my early twenties, didn't have a lot of money to spend, and rode for the basic enjoyment of riding. The young people that I talk to are in the same boat that I was in and because of money restraints, and a slightly different concept of purpose for riding, and just may need to be "shown the way" to the concept of doing most of your own maintenance and the simplicity of a basic Airhead.

jandhumphreyme · May 15, 2019

I see this membership things as somewhat of a "tempest in a teacup" What does declining membership really mean? What will go away or get cut out that everyone relies on now?

I can't help but believe that without anything to sell your not going to have many customers. What is the MOA selling to younger people? A magazine subscription, some discounts, a roadside assistance program, reimbursement for motorcycle training, getaway's and the annual rally? Not much to a generation who consumes media in the palm of their hand and can find the info in the magazine on at least 10 different websites for free, and not a lot of financial resources for expensive bikes. Lot of chatter about cost; BMW's are too expensive for younger people, true, they are expensive so why then why would you develop a "getaway" program, where event costs are $100 per person, and room rates are well over $100 per night, pretty expensive for a weekend, don't see that attracting many new younger members.

Seems pretty hard to me to maintain a "club" type atmosphere when people only get together once a year, as some have pointed out "to camp in the mud". It's a blast, it's too short, it's an event, but not something to promote deeper bonding of a group of people. Sure some do develop long term friendships, I do not think it's the norm. So what is a "Club"? Webster's defines club as; "an association of persons for some common object usually jointly supported and meeting periodically". I guess once per year meets the "periodically" requirement. I cannot help but believe the way for the MOA to grow is to actively promote local charter clubs and events. Local clubs are better suited to adapt to regional needs and concerns of all types of riders, if there is a greater number of off roaders in an area, great the club can focus on that, road riders, racing and track days, custom building, same thing. Local clubs can promote inexpensive family events, yes camping in the mud but with Mom, Dad and the kids, if one of the parents doesnt ride so what, it can be a family event where the riding parent can sneak off for a few hours to ride, train or whatever. I can see the MOA as providing leadership, organizational skills, promotional assistance, maybe training opportunities at regional sponsored events.

Omega Man · May 15, 2019

For your consideration,

How would (you) sell them this “used” bike when (you) keep chasing them “off the lawn”?

Instead of being “strident” on riding attire, try to explain that staying covered up, in whatever fashion they can afford, will help in a mishap.

Try being nice and welcoming to other riders. I have found each brand of bike had a “stigma” attached to it.

om

greenwald · May 15, 2019

Omega Man said:
For your consideration,

How would (you) sell them this “used” bike when (you) keep chasing them “off the lawn”?

Instead of being “strident” on riding attire, try to explain that staying covered up, in whatever fashion they can afford, will help in a mishap.

Try being nice and welcoming to other riders. I have found each brand of bike had a “stigma” attached to it.

om

So, ……………. if they're interested in my used bike, they're politely at the front door - not figuratively 'trespassing on my lawn.' Manners are learned and respect is earned.

Oh yeah - let's water-down the importance of ATGATT for the sake of recruiting those with 'snowflake egos.'. That way, they're riding experience will be stattistically even shorter than normal, once crashes take their toll.

As for those pesky 'stigmas,' in Japan, they remove that before crating up for shipping. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda." :dance

Omega Man · May 15, 2019

greenwald said:
So, ……………. if they're interested in my used bike, they're politely at the front door - not figuratively 'trespassing on my lawn.' Manners are learned and respect is earned.

Oh yeah - let's water-down the importance of ATGATT for the sake of recruiting those with 'snowflake egos.'. That way, they're riding experience will be stattistically even shorter than normal, once crashes take their toll.

As for those pesky 'stigmas,' in Japan, they remove that before crating up for shipping. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda."

“The beatings will continue until morale improves”
OM

Visian · May 15, 2019

jandhumphreyme said:
I see this membership things as somewhat of a "tempest in a teacup" What does declining membership really mean? What will go away or get cut out that everyone relies on now?

I can't help but believe that without anything to sell your not going to have many customers. What is the MOA selling to younger people? A magazine subscription, some discounts, a roadside assistance program, reimbursement for motorcycle training, getaway's and the annual rally? Not much to a generation who consumes media in the palm of their hand and can find the info in the magazine on at least 10 different websites for free, and not a lot of financial resources for expensive bikes. Lot of chatter about cost; BMW's are too expensive for younger people, true, they are expensive so why then why would you develop a "getaway" program, where event costs are $100 per person, and room rates are well over $100 per night, pretty expensive for a weekend, don't see that attracting many new younger members.

Seems pretty hard to me to maintain a "club" type atmosphere when people only get together once a year, as some have pointed out "to camp in the mud". It's a blast, it's too short, it's an event, but not something to promote deeper bonding of a group of people. Sure some do develop long term friendships, I do not think it's the norm. So what is a "Club"? Webster's defines club as; "an association of persons for some common object usually jointly supported and meeting periodically". I guess once per year meets the "periodically" requirement. I cannot help but believe the way for the MOA to grow is to actively promote local charter clubs and events. Local clubs are better suited to adapt to regional needs and concerns of all types of riders, if there is a greater number of off roaders in an area, great the club can focus on that, road riders, racing and track days, custom building, same thing. Local clubs can promote inexpensive family events, yes camping in the mud but with Mom, Dad and the kids, if one of the parents doesnt ride so what, it can be a family event where the riding parent can sneak off for a few hours to ride, train or whatever. I can see the MOA as providing leadership, organizational skills, promotional assistance, maybe training opportunities at regional sponsored events.

Your questions are very complex, and sorry for quoting your whole post, but the simple answer is that the nature of clubs (or more accurately, the community experience and resulting benefits that people derive from it) are changing and I am not sure we are.

Three major drivers of this change are social media, mobility and cooperative enterprise technologies, and I would rather not bore you with discussions of pretty radical changes to our “club” model that I think are needed. Instead, I started this thread.

All I can say is that there are things we could be doing to increase our relevance to a whole bunch of people, regardless of age, that we are not pursuing. I’ve outlined many of these ideas in hundreds of posts here, they will appear with a search on my username. Others I have shared with our leaders and staff... and all I get back is reasons “why not.”

If you don’t see declining membership as a problem, there is not much I can say to convince you that it is.

Ian

Friedle · May 15, 2019

Visian said:
And of course, it takes a budget. Maybe there is a way to get the MOAF to help chartered clubs with funds for training days, ...

Hello Ian,

This can be done...just by asking the MOAF. May 4th of this year, I taught a class of Yankee Beemers the new one day Advanced Rider Course (updated) at the MSF site in Troy, NY. (Capital Area Motorcycle School) The MSF site offered the YBs a discounted rate. YB president Duncan Cooper negotiated a deal with the MOAF for any member who successfully completed the course, and submitted their completion card to the MOAF, to receive a $50 rebate per person. We had a full course of 12 riders. BTW, YB dues are $30 per year. By taking the ARCu you actually MADE $20 while learning to ride better, AND had an enjoyable experience as well I hope this program will continue into the future and perhaps serve as an inspiration to other chartered MOA clubs.

Michael Friedle
MSF 27713
Yankee Beemer

Visian · May 16, 2019

Friedle said:
Hello Ian,

This can be done...just by asking the MOAF. May 4th of this year, I taught a class of Yankee Beemers the new one day Advanced Rider Course (updated) at the MSF site in Troy, NY. (Capital Area Motorcycle School) The MSF site offered the YBs a discounted rate. YB president Duncan Cooper negotiated a deal with the MOAF for any member who successfully completed the course, and submitted their completion card to the MOAF, to receive a $50 rebate per person. We had a full course of 12 riders. BTW, YB dues are $30 per year. By taking the ARCu you actually MADE $20 while learning to ride better, AND had an enjoyable experience as well I hope this program will continue into the future and perhaps serve as an inspiration to other chartered MOA clubs.

Good on you, Michael! I think the part of coordinating with the MSF was really smart!

I am betting that if we could define this process, add in some local promo (especially through dealers, the clubs and the MSF) to make younger riders aware, and get 10-15 clubs across the country to follow this pattern... a number of good things would happen.

A few years ago an offer was made to provide a trailer-full of G310 available for events like this. If we could get enough events going to make it worth BMW’s while, I bet they’d pitch in. It’s a great way to sell new and used bikes and to make new members.

This sounds like a great way for Regional Coordinators and Ambassadors to work together.

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