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1150RT '04 ABS Flush Problem

O

oldfartbiker

New member
I just replaced the pads on all 3 calipers of my RT. Had no problems before this - just worn pads. After reinstalling the calipers on the bike I decided to do a brake flush. My instructions said to suction out -with a turkey baster - the old fluid from the front and rear ABS reservoirs. Stupidly, I removed all I could see in there. Then I installed the after market funnel and SLOWLY added new fluid so I didn't get air bubbles. I bled the front left and then right calipers and didn't see any signs of air. Repeated for the rear caliper. Then I did the 6 outlets on the ABS in the correct order for front and rear. Now the problems start: When I turn on the ignition, the ABS initializes but the "Brake Failure" light keeps rapidly flashing - 4/sec. Supposedly this is telling me that the system has failed the self-test. Usual cause is air in the system. I went back and repeated the bleed for the 6 ports on the ABS and got NO bubbles. Ignition on again and same results with the self-test failing. I'm beginning to suspect I managed to get air into the ABS front and/or rear brake lines since I pulled too much fluid out of the reservoirs to start with. How are these bled? Seems like a long way to pump fluid all the way to the calipers and downhill in the front with air wanting to go up. Is there a better way to do this? OR are there any other ideas??? :banghead
 
sailsaboat said:
I just replaced the pads on all 3 calipers of my RT. Had no problems before this - just worn pads. After reinstalling the calipers on the bike I decided to do a brake flush. My instructions said to suction out -with a turkey baster - the old fluid from the front and rear ABS reservoirs. Stupidly, I removed all I could see in there. Then I installed the after market funnel and SLOWLY added new fluid so I didn't get air bubbles. I bled the front left and then right calipers and didn't see any signs of air. Repeated for the rear caliper. Then I did the 6 outlets on the ABS in the correct order for front and rear. Now the problems start: When I turn on the ignition, the ABS initializes but the "Brake Failure" light keeps rapidly flashing - 4/sec. Supposedly this is telling me that the system has failed the self-test. Usual cause is air in the system. I went back and repeated the bleed for the 6 ports on the ABS and got NO bubbles. Ignition on again and same results with the self-test failing. I'm beginning to suspect I managed to get air into the ABS front and/or rear brake lines since I pulled too much fluid out of the reservoirs to start with. How are these bled? Seems like a long way to pump fluid all the way to the calipers and downhill in the front with air wanting to go up. Is there a better way to do this? OR are there any other ideas??? :banghead
Click to expand...

There is no need for a turkey baster.
The control circuits are done with a Mity Vac or any vacuum tool
The power circuits are done with a special funnel (https://www.beemerboneyard.com/abs3funnel.html) and the fluid pumped thru using the servo motors.
Have you followed this procedure?
https://advrider.com/f/resources/abs-3-service-v2-0.7/
 
Any time that I got the fast flashing light during ignition on it has been a stuck brake switch. See if your brake light is on without operating either brake.
 
GSAddict said:
There is no need for a turkey baster.
The control circuits are done with a Mity Vac or any vacuum tool
The power circuits are done with a special funnel (https://www.beemerboneyard.com/abs3funnel.html) and the fluid pumped thru using the servo motors.
Have you followed this procedure?
https://advrider.com/f/resources/abs-3-service-v2-0.7/
Click to expand...

I just took the fluid out of the reservoir not any suction on the lines. Should have left a little in there I suspect. Yes I used the special funnel to refill. Then I followed the procedure that was in the maint. ref. book with filling the funnel about 1/2 and running it down to the start of the neck. It never went down past that point when I was refilling the reservoir. If there is air in the system it's because I caused suctioned the fluid below the drawing point of the reservoir.
 
kioolt said:
Any time that I got the fast flashing light during ignition on it has been a stuck brake switch. See if your brake light is on without operating either brake.
Click to expand...

I would say the brake light is on but it's hard to tell exactly because I'm inside and not used to seeing it in the dim garage. When I do use hand or foot brake the brake light doesn't get brighter. I also have after-market pulsating brake lights in addition to the std light and they don't pulsate but they do look like they are on bright rather than the usual running brightness.
 
GSAddict said:
There is no need for a turkey baster.
The control circuits are done with a Mity Vac or any vacuum tool
The power circuits are done with a special funnel (https://www.beemerboneyard.com/abs3funnel.html) and the fluid pumped thru using the servo motors.
Have you followed this procedure?
https://advrider.com/f/resources/abs-3-service-v2-0.7/
Click to expand...

Headed down to pick up a few quarts of fluid. If an easy fix doesn't come up. I'll just run a lot of fluid through both front and rear calipers. I've redone the 6 circuits 2x already on the suggestion of local guys who felt that the problem was more likely in there. A few quarts of fluid and a coffee is the simplest and easiest. Scotch on the rocks after that!
 
sailsaboat said:
I just took the fluid out of the reservoir not any suction on the lines. Should have left a little in there I suspect. Yes I used the special funnel to refill. Then I followed the procedure that was in the maint. ref. book with filling the funnel about 1/2 and running it down to the start of the neck. It never went down past that point when I was refilling the reservoir. If there is air in the system it's because I caused suctioned the fluid below the drawing point of the reservoir.
Click to expand...

In future, no need to remove any fluid. Connect the funnel, add the fluid and pump thru until clear (all while keeping the level topped up)
 
kioolt said:
Any time that I got the fast flashing light during ignition on it has been a stuck brake switch. See if your brake light is on without operating either brake.
Click to expand...

UPDATE: Break light IS on so now moving in that direction. Will let you know how this works out. Thanks guys for the help.
 
kioolt said:
Any time that I got the fast flashing light during ignition on it has been a stuck brake switch. See if your brake light is on without operating either brake.
Click to expand...

Replaced the foot brake light switch and no help. The brake light is still on and when ignition is turned on the ABS initializes and brake lights flash. Now looking at the front brake light switch. To be continued....
 
Found front brake light connection. Checked and no changes. Just called to rent a trailer. Also started to reassemble so I could bring the bike to a shop. As I did, I checked all contacts, cannon plugs, etc that I had touched or checked before. Installed the lower "kick" plate that supports the footrest, rear brake master (hit the push rod for the master a few times as I put screws in), and the rear brake switch (original back on). Fuel tank back on, hoses, electric all back. What the heck, I'll turn the ignition on..... HOLY S----! It all works! ABS initialized! Brake lights function normally! Lights flash as they should (1/sec) for the brake failure light. Have NO idea of what was wrong. I called a BMW mechanic I had talked to and he was as puzzled as I am and at a loss for ideas.:scratch Took the bike out and brakes function normally. Just canceled the trailer and now for that Scotch! Thanks guys for the ideas and I have a new rear brake switch in my tool box.
 
Isn't that a great feeling when you put it all back together after a problem and it all works as it should?
Go buy a lottery ticket now!
Your on a roll
 
sailsaboat said:
Found front brake light connection. Checked and no changes. Just called to rent a trailer. Also started to reassemble so I could bring the bike to a shop. As I did, I checked all contacts, cannon plugs, etc that I had touched or checked before. Installed the lower "kick" plate that supports the footrest, rear brake master (hit the push rod for the master a few times as I put screws in), and the rear brake switch (original back on). Fuel tank back on, hoses, electric all back. What the heck, I'll turn the ignition on..... HOLY S----! It all works! ABS initialized! Brake lights function normally! Lights flash as they should (1/sec) for the brake failure light. Have NO idea of what was wrong. I called a BMW mechanic I had talked to and he was as puzzled as I am and at a loss for ideas.:scratch Took the bike out and brakes function normally. Just canceled the trailer and now for that Scotch! Thanks guys for the ideas and I have a new rear brake switch in my tool box.
Click to expand...

Congrats on getting your brake issue resolved. My RT is an ‘02 which has servo assisted ABS brake, also known as whizzy brakes and what a pain in the butt they are to work on! A couple weeks ago I replaced my brake pads and switched to Spiegler stainless brake hoses. I was never more happy than the moment I tested everything and got my bike put back together.

Took it for a nice ride today. I still love my old bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Spiegler stainless brake hoses

tangoalpha said:
Congrats on getting your brake issue resolved. My RT is an ‘02 which has servo assisted ABS brake, also known as whizzy brakes and what a pain in the butt they are to work on! A couple weeks ago I replaced my brake pads and switched to Spiegler stainless brake hoses. I was never more happy than the moment I tested everything and got my bike put back together.

Took it for a nice ride today. I still love my old bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm about to do the brake fluid flush on my 04 RT. Have done it many times and thought about upgrading the brake lines, where did you get them from?

Thanks,

Mark
 
scootrp125x said:
I'm about to do the brake fluid flush on my 04 RT. Have done it many times and thought about upgrading the brake lines, where did you get them from?

Thanks,

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark,

I ordered my set directly from Spiegler. Here’s the link to their website: https://spieglerusa.com

For what it’s worth, I shopped around a bit and to tell you the truth I really didn’t find any great deals out there, the businesses I checked were all priced about the same. So I decided to go straight to the source and buy them from Spiegler. One nice perk is that the company offers free technical support should you need it. Fortunately it wasn’t necessary in my case, because the kits they sell are nicely packaged and every part is labeled so you know exactly where each hose goes.

They include a few extras as well like a plastic tool that resembles a couple LEGO blocks that can be used to bend the banjo fittings.

For the cost, it’s probably the best money I’ve spent on my bike and it definitely offers me piece of mind. The hoses are high quality.

On a technical scale, the job is not difficult, but be prepared for a major pain in the ass!

Good luck with your project. Let us know how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Spiegler brake line kits are available directly from spieglerusa.com or from many other moto vendors that carry their products.
 
tangoalpha said:
Mark,

I ordered my set directly from Spiegler. Here’s the link to their website: https://spieglerusa.com

For what it’s worth, I shopped around a bit and to tell you the truth I really didn’t find any great deals out there, the businesses I checked were all priced about the same. So I decided to go straight to the source and buy them from Spiegler. One nice perk is that the company offers free technical support should you need it. Fortunately it wasn’t necessary in my case, because the kits they sell are nicely packaged and every part is labeled so you know exactly where each hose goes.

They include a few extras as well like a plastic tool that resembles a couple LEGO blocks that can be used to bend the banjo fittings.

For the cost, it’s probably the best money I’ve spent on my bike and it definitely offers me piece of mind. The hoses are high quality.

On a technical scale, the job is not difficult, but be prepared for a major pain in the ass!

Good luck with your project. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the information. I will let you know if I get it done. I'm a "half fast" mechanic, not sure if I can handle a "major pain in the ass" job, lol!:violin
Click to expand...
 
tangoalpha said:
For what it’s worth, I shopped around a bit and to tell you the truth I really didn’t find any great deals out there, the businesses I checked were all priced about the same. So I decided to go straight to the source and buy them from Spiegler.
Click to expand...

I agree but would offer a counter suggestion. BMW MOA member, technical contributor, long time BMW expert, and all around good guy Tom Cutter operates the Rubber Chicken Racing Garage as a one-person small business. Tom recently had open heart surgery which has limited his ability for a while to do the transmission rebuilds, final drive rebuilds, and on-bike repair part of the business. But the other part of his business as a seller of parts still needs to thrive more than ever right now.

Tom sells Speigler stuff and is very knowledgeable about the lines and their applications. I would buy what I needed from Tom Cutter.
 
PGlaves said:
I agree but would offer a counter suggestion. BMW MOA member, technical contributor, long time BMW expert, and all around good guy Tom Cutter operates the Rubber Chicken Racing Garage as a one-person small business. Tom recently had open heart surgery which has limited his ability for a while to do the transmission rebuilds, final drive rebuilds, and on-bike repair part of the business. But the other part of his business as a seller of parts still needs to thrive more than ever right now.

Tom sells Speigler stuff and is very knowledgeable about the lines and their applications. I would buy what I needed from Tom Cutter.
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul. I will check out Tom's website. I'm sure I can do a brake line replacement!
 
tangoalpha said:
Congrats on getting your brake issue resolved. My RT is an ‘02 which has servo assisted ABS brake, also known as whizzy brakes and what a pain in the butt they are to work on! A couple weeks ago I replaced my brake pads and switched to Spiegler stainless brake hoses. I was never more happy than the moment I tested everything and got my bike put back together.

Took it for a nice ride today. I still love my old bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

OK, I did a little more research and got together with our local "BMW Guru". He came to the conclusion that it was the FRONT brake switch that hung up. Actually it was the "plunger" that is moved when the front brake is squeezed. If it doesn't return to the fully open position - like it would if you release the brake handle - it won't trigger the brake lights to turn off and the brake will show as on and therefore the ABS won't initialize. LONG WAY AROUND a simple thing but it drove several of us nuts. Only way to get it to reset back is to play with it since the system won't pressurize. He said it is also possible to have the rear do the same but you can reach the piston easily there. It's more likely to be the front since that is done pressurized. OK, enough research and now back to my Scotch!
 
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