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Thread: 2003 K1200GT - any tips on fuel filter change?

  1. #31
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    Non starting - 2003 K1200GT after air and fuel change. Pictures show (1) no warning lights after crank, just abs, neutral, gen. (2) kickstand up, (3) kill switch set to RUN. (4) Gas tank 1/3 full , Gear in 0 Neutral. Oil and Temp lights, ABS break flashing, Neutral. Battery 12.1vt. The WARNING light next to the Green Neutral is not on during crank. The temp and Oil lights go out after diagnostics. I have a video of the process but not sure if it can be posted. MotoBat fresh and charged.

    So, on first start, I turn on key and hear the diagnostics and the fuel pump pressurize, then stops to wait. Turn key, cranks. No sputter. After a second try same on Key, only 3 lights are lit. The Neutral, ABS, GEN. No warning light. No warning light ever except at diagnostics startup. I didn't smell and fuel leaks or fuel smell in exhaust pipe.

    Second attempt, opened tank, I don't hear a swirling sound. No rushing or possible leaking squirting sound. Tubes in tank are new, tightened with screw fasteners. I think they were pretty solid. I can hear the brakes both front and back activating when touched. Not that this part matters.

    I have a GS-911 tool on order due in Friday. I have not done the battery disconnects yet but thought I would wait to see the codes from GS911, if any. Education for me and not urgent to get to the hospital or work, etc. A science experiment. The GS-911 tools are expensive at $399 for rookie and $800 for professional. I got the rookie one. I expected to get a Warning light if this bike hit a Code. Guess not.

    It is possible I had the two small vacuum hoses reversed when I removed and altered screw clamps. I just slid them off and thought I put them back. I forget where they go off to. The Charcoal can and maybe a drain to ground. I didn't have them marked before I took them off to trim the screw clamp cleaner. Also, I might have the Quick disconnects not seated properly and only a small amount of fuel in the line. Yesterday, I did start the bike after closing the panels and it ran for 2-3 mins in idle without me rev'ing it. I walked away and played with the dog. The bike sputtered like my lawn mower does without fuel, then shut off. Been dead ever since. My guess is the BMW computer got a fault code and shut down all future use. Kind of dumb to do that but I see GS911 video's of same problem. I would hate to be on the road and run out of fuel.

    The only positive outcome, is that I have 3 extra panel screws on my bench. I guess I get to find out where they go.

    Thanks for the advice.
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    2003 K1200GT

  2. #32
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Unplug the disconnects and connect them again.
    You will see the flat tab spring back into place and you will hear a faint click if they seat properly.
    With the preformed fuel lines it's difficult to get the connections backwards.

    Quick Disconnects.jpg
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  3. #33
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    Earlier picture from friends show the front skinny tube goes to the Can and the back one is drain of water from cap. I might have flipped those but will check. I will reseat the quick connects, those I didn't flip for sure. Just odd that the bike ran for 2-3mins before shutting down. I guess time to stop crabbing and strip it back down.
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    2003 K1200GT

  4. #34
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmull View Post
    I guess time to stop crabbing and strip it back down.
    You may be able to reach through the opening of the fairing to check the QDs.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  5. #35
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    I got impatient and went back at it.

    I tried the battery disconnect. Let it sit for 10 mins. Reconnected the power back and forth a couple times. Power back on, but it did the same. Crank, no start. Lights same. Experiment failed for resetting based on battery disconnects. All other functions such as turn signals, windshield up/down, horn, etc doing something normal.

    Pulled the panels. Found nothing special. Connection near the QD looked solid. I had the smaller tubes to Canister and drain correct to prior picture. Not that. I pulled the quick disconnects and gas dribbled out of both. Nothing special. Reconnected them with solid clicks. Cranking didn't do anything. But no leaks either.

    Other connectors to tank look ok, one on the left front, solid. Same status, turn key on, I hear the tank during a couple seconds, then stops. I assume that is the pump pressurizing. Gas gauge slowly rises to 1/3 full.

    I was expecting a powerful smell of flooded gas, but there wasn't any. Small gas scent in the exhaust pipe.

    Next step for me is to wait for the GS-911 diagnostic tool. Spark and gas is all I need. It is one of those not working.
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    2003 K1200GT

  6. #36
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    You can quickly verify connections on the small hoses now that the plastic is off. Open the gas tank, put a finger over the water drain hole in the filler neck, then blow into the drain hose that exits down by the swingarm. If air is flowing freely between those two points your connection is correct.

    Have you verified you’re getting spark? As in pulling a plug wire, attaching it to a FIRMLY GROUNDED new sparkplug then cranking the engine? Doing such a check without making sure the plug is grounded can damage the ignition system. You can also do a quick check by just clamping an induction timing light around a plug wire and cranking. I’m just wondering about the status on your Hall effect pickup.

    Best,
    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  7. #37
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    I think it's related to the work done this last week.
    It did start and run for a few minutes.

    It's like one of the fuel lines came loose in the tank, but looking at the pictures the clamps looked good on the fuel filter and pump.

    If it was me I would concentrate on every thing I touched this last week.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  8. #38
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I think it's related to the work done this last week.
    It did start and run for a few minutes.

    It's like one of the fuel lines came loose in the tank, but looking at the pictures the clamps looked good on the fuel filter and pump.

    If it was me I would concentrate on every thing I touched this last week.
    I agree that the best place to start looking is the last work done, but a few simple checks can eliminate things like a sticky sidestand switch, etc. before draining and opening the tank again. If the QDs are not fully seated the pressure usually blows the hose off the filter immediately on an attempted start. If a filter splits—and I have seen the filters let go on the crimp—the bike might run as it did, but subsequently fail to start because it can’t build adequate fuel pressure. But that can usually be discovered by listening at an open filler neck, unless the tank is quite full. Personally, I’d want to know I have spark—a good Hall unit and no stuck or failed sidestand or cutoff switches—before jumping back into the tank. And even then, before opening the tank I’d be draining it down to or below filter level and have another listen. But that’s just the lazy in me coming out, I guess.

    Best,
    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  9. #39
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    During the pump pressure startup, does it stop after it reaches a certain pressure? Mine stops after a few seconds as I normally hear. Hum for 2-3 sec, then quiet.

    If that is the case, then I have reached full pressure in the tank tubes. If a loose tube, it would keep on running wouldn't it with a swish splash, Yes/No?

    I will drain the tank down to where the low fuel light turns on to see the effect. Good to know what happens with a weak QD and the line blowing. Nothing like that is happening. No leaks outside the tank.

    I have not checked the spark. Like a lawn mower, I can ground a plug to see if it sparks. Worth a look. I haven't heard the term Hall effect. My assumption is with a code, the spark would be turned off with the disabled computer command. No spark could mean the computer code. A spark, though, would plant it back on the recent fuel filter change..

    Here is the video on that subject. Some term called "fuse activated on pump" .

    Video of the GS-911 resetting fault code.

    http://www.beemershop.com/Merchant5/...ry_Code=GS-911

    Other thought, I didn't check fuses but will tomorrow.

    Other thought is the BMW fuel filter ($42) is clogged. Bad filter from BMW? The pictures shows the correct direction of the flow. I can put the old one back on.

    Friday is the GS-911 delivery.
    2003 K1200GT

  10. #40
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmull View Post
    During the pump pressure startup, does it stop after it reaches a certain pressure? Mine stops after a few seconds as I normally hear. Hum for 2-3 sec, then quiet.

    If that is the case, then I have reached full pressure in the tank tubes. If a loose tube, it would keep on running wouldn't it with a swish splash, Yes/No?

    I will drain the tank down to where the low fuel light turns on to see the effect. Good to know what happens with a weak QD and the line blowing. Nothing like that is happening. No leaks outside the tank.

    I have not checked the spark. Like a lawn mower, I can ground a plug to see if it sparks. Worth a look. I haven't heard the term Hall effect. My assumption is with a code, the spark would be turned off with the disabled computer command. No spark could mean the computer code. A spark, though, would plant it back on the recent fuel filter change..

    Here is the video on that subject. Some term called "fuse activated on pump" .

    Video of the GS-911 resetting fault code.

    http://www.beemershop.com/Merchant5/...ry_Code=GS-911

    Other thought, I didn't check fuses but will tomorrow.

    Other thought is the BMW fuel filter ($42) is clogged. Bad filter from BMW? The pictures shows the correct direction of the flow. I can put the old one back on.

    Friday is the GS-911 delivery.
    Just to clarify—when we talk about a hose blowing off due to QDs not being properly seated, that happens inside the tank, generally at one of the filter connections. And the initial run of the pump, to pressurize the system for starting, is controlled by the ECU. I’m not sure it reads fuel pressure as a stop signal but strongly suspect it is just a timing function in the ECU. And yes, a plugged filter can bring things to a halt as well.

    I generally replace the filter whenever I have to pull a pump&filter out of the tank, just because it is a PITA to get to. A “while I’m in there” thing. Filters are available from Beemer Boneyard at a much more reasonable cost, especially if you take advantage of the discount code found in nearly every issue of the BMW Owner’s News.

    Good luck, keep us posted!
    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  11. #41
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmull View Post
    Other thought is the BMW fuel filter ($42) is clogged. Bad filter from BMW? The pictures shows the correct direction of the flow. I can put the old one back on.

    Friday is the GS-911 delivery.
    I have not heard of a new filter being plugged.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  12. #42
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I have not heard of a new filter being plugged.
    Doh! I missed that had already replaced the filter. A filter split at the crimp is still a possibility, tho.
    😊
    Best,
    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S-PD — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT — 2018 R1200GS
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  13. #43
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    Plug has spark. I pulled #2 plug, laid to the frame and cranked it. Several sparks on the plug came off. A big surprise to me. So much for the code reset ideas.

    When I pulled the plug, it was wet with fuel. I dried it off. I was expecting no spark. But it did, kind of weird. If wet, why no sputter. Weird.

    I put some ether starter fluid in Cyl2 and gave it another try, it has a mild sputter on that one cylinder. So the spark was real. Conclusion, the fuel is the problem. Back to Lee's comment, last thing I worked on is the likely problem. I did not pull all the plugs and test individually. One was enough for me. No misfires before and the wires look good.

    I drained the tank down to near empty, same no start, no sputter, no sound other than pump pressurizing and stopping after 3 seconds. I was expecting bubbling or spraying from a loose connection.

    I am pulling the tank and starting over. I still have the old filter and will put it back. Dated 09.09.02, so this is 17 years old. I blow into the old one but doesn't pass through very easy, so I guess, that is normal. Hard to see if the new is blocked. New one is BMW filter.

    Earlier picture, I showed the completed replacement with screw clamps. Is the filter going the correct direction? I have the arrow pointing to the top bend.
    2003 K1200GT

  14. #44
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmull View Post
    Earlier picture, I showed the completed replacement with screw clamps. Is the filter going the correct direction? I have the arrow pointing to the top bend.
    Earlier I looked at that and it appear correct.
    My picture was not perfectly clear so I Googled some pictures and they match yours.
    Can you see into the tank with a flashlight while you try to start the bike?

    If you remove the new filter I would blow through it to see if it's clear and put it back in if it's clear.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  15. #45
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    Fixed. Bike running now.

    As I pulled the pump out of the tank, one of the connections was off. I really couldn't tell if it was from me pulling it out disconnected it while messing with the smaller tubes or blew off days ago. But it was a big sign. When I pushed it back on, I was on the very edge of the metal tube, so it looked like my error not getting enough hose down the metal tube. Probably too timid tightening it down also.

    Of note, that J shape of rubber tube had to be bent down further, beyond it's natural shape. Design error, the tube should have another half inch longer that side to prevent grabbing just the edge. This time I got the clamp on back side of the metal hump instead of on top of the hump. See picture on what I saw disconnected out of the tank and then picture of it reattached. The reattachment reversed the clamp to slide it lower down the tube and not interfere with the filter itself.

    Picture of original 2002 filter. This bikes has been serviced by four different Chicago BMW dealers and several prior owners. I guess changing the filter is not high on the list for maintenance. I think the air filter got better service, though. The air filter was 18 months ago.

    Bike started right away once tank reinstalled. No panels yet. I let it warm up 5-10 mins. See temp picture. Idled fine. RPM at 4k fine. No misfires. etc.

    Thanks for all the suggestions. Your guys kept me focus on the problem.
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    2003 K1200GT

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