exgman
Active member
Here's a link to an online article which I hope everyone who wants to can see: https://ridermagazine.com/2019/01/0...93J0358467G8W&ajs_trait_oebid=7900E2474689B3Q
I'll put it on FB too.
I'll put it on FB too.
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Rider Magazine Article Re: H-D Livewire. $30K and 100-mile range
- Thread starter exgman
- Start date
$30K price tag with a 100 mile range? Sounds like Harley understands their core audience quite well. Will it still have lots of chrome to polish? Can you add an aftermarket LOUD potato-potato exhaust to the electric motor? So many questions, so little interest personally in this machine. 
Friedle
Friedle
$30K price tag with a 100 mile range? Sounds like Harley understands their core audience quite well. Will it still have lots of chrome to polish? Can you add an aftermarket LOUD potato-potato exhaust to the electric motor? So many questions, so little interest personally in this machine.
Friedle
Will you still take the money to MSF train riders of this new HD motorcycle?
OM
jmills@gotown.net
New member
I considered switching from my 2007 GS to a HD for the social side of things, but couldn’t get past their business model of selling a substandard machine and charging thousands to get it up to performance somewhat lower than a stock GS. I wonder what the stage kits will be? Stage I kit gives you a software change that will increase output by 5%? Stage II buys you a few more batteries to extend range 10 miles? Stage III buys you a better charging system so it can be recharged in less time from you clothes dryer plug-in? ...
I personally love the concept of electric vehicles. Some manufacturers are doing better than others in the execution. A $30k electric HD that comes out at a much higher price point with less range than competitors (Zero) is set up for epic failure. The core HD customer base is not going to be interested at all and the younger buyers will not be interested because of cost and performance issues.
I personally love the concept of electric vehicles. Some manufacturers are doing better than others in the execution. A $30k electric HD that comes out at a much higher price point with less range than competitors (Zero) is set up for epic failure. The core HD customer base is not going to be interested at all and the younger buyers will not be interested because of cost and performance issues.
greenwald
New member
I'm going to presume that shot was "tongue in cheek."
As for "taking their money to train" implication, consider the inescapable variations of students.
All are welcome at the table, once minimum criteria (age, ability to ride a bicycle - i.e. balance and coordination abilities demonstrated, physical disabilities not withstanding, etc. are met.
However, we cannot control poor decision making, such as students of mine who successfully complete the scooter BRC, with no training to include a heavier machine, manually shifting gears, counter-weighting - then go out and finance Road Kings and Gold Wings the next day. Their choice, but IMHO, ill-prepared and a poor decision.
Electric bikes? Not my cup of tea, but their proponents will certainly populate the training arena (to a very small percentage) as the popularity of these machines are integrated into the transportation matrix.
Yes - the organizations we train for will take their money. Not a 'choice' on our part.
beemerphile
New member
Harley has a long held corporate strategy of leading from the rear.
pglaves
#13338
And worldwide they did outsell BMW 20 to 1.
shortythorne
shortythorne
I'd like to have an electric commuter car; we already have a big truck for the RV, and that probably won't be moving to EV for decades, so I'll always have an ICE available; an EV would be nice for my wife to run around town. We have a garage, so we can charge at home; and, for that application, it would be a good replacement for one of our ICE vehicles.
But for a motorcycle?? They already burn about 0 gas. I can ride all day, and I mean ALL day, on less than 10 gallons. What problem are we trying to solve here? High performance bikes are stupid fast, far more power on tap than they can put to the ground. They use very little fuel. Maintenance is, for most users, a breeze, and the engine typically outlasts at least a few owners.
A 100 mile range without an easy/quick way to refuel is beyond limiting, it's effectively useless for many of the things I use my bike for. At 100 miles, I'm generally at the 1/2 way point on most of my rides.
I really do like electrification in general, but I'm not a zelot either, there are a lot of applications where battery power makes little/no sense. Too heavy, too slow to charge, and not real clear on what problem is being solved while several are being created.
But for a motorcycle?? They already burn about 0 gas. I can ride all day, and I mean ALL day, on less than 10 gallons. What problem are we trying to solve here? High performance bikes are stupid fast, far more power on tap than they can put to the ground. They use very little fuel. Maintenance is, for most users, a breeze, and the engine typically outlasts at least a few owners.
A 100 mile range without an easy/quick way to refuel is beyond limiting, it's effectively useless for many of the things I use my bike for. At 100 miles, I'm generally at the 1/2 way point on most of my rides.
I really do like electrification in general, but I'm not a zelot either, there are a lot of applications where battery power makes little/no sense. Too heavy, too slow to charge, and not real clear on what problem is being solved while several are being created.
exgman
Active member
Well, mjfink420, it's interesting for me to revisit the thread on which I was the OP in 2019. In the intervening years, I've moved from an ICE 2013 Acura TL to a 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 (which is a full EV). I've now driven the Ioniq 5 almost 12,000 miles and have learned about EV limitations. I have learned the lessons of the limitations of the charging network (generally not a great thing), the performance potential of an EV (mine goes 0-60mph in 4.5 seconds...about the same as my RT) and the plans for the future of the EV industry which are slowly evolving.
Looking at the way things are going, I'd say that for a motorcycle to evolve into a machine comparable to today's best machines, it's going to take a development or probably a series of major developments in the reduction in battery weight and increase in battery output. It seems that the electric motorcycle power plants are up to the task, but that their potential won't be reached until the stored power/output of EV batteries increases dramatically. Toyota recently promised some major strides in that area, but it'll be a while until that matures I think.
