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Thread: Jim Ford and thoughts about scanning the environment

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 179212 View Post
    Third hand information I repeat 3rd hand information
    Illinois which has motorcycle police on the road sometimes and sometimes not, one of the times when motorcycle policemen on the road, one of them told a friend of friend that you needed to watch your speed early in the day or shift, while they did not have quotas, they usually wrote the number of tickets wanted the first couple of hours of the shift than they just enjoyed the ride the rest of the day.
    Remember this is 2nd hand hearsay, but it kind of jives with what I observed on long commutes to various job sites.
    Not entirely too far from the 'hearsay bull's eye.' I will always entertain legitimate gripes about LEO's. We were not Supermen.

    On my department, though there was no quota (we could write as many as we wanted!), you knew that about 4 'stats' a day, in addition to your unpredictable work load, kept you out of the Captain's office at shift change.

    We had guys who wrote fast and furious the first ninety minutes, and then coasted thru the rest of the day. We called them Rod . Retired On Duty.

    But lazy still applies to an afore mentioned scenario, when the lesser of two infractions are enforced because it's an easier day in court.

    Saw too much of that as well. As an FTO (Field Training Officer) for all new hires, I made those recruits walk a better path.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    That presumes that exceeding posted speed limits is necessarily unsafe; it is not in many cases.

    That is true under specific circumstances. I myself am typically 5-7 over posted limits on wide-open super slabs. But at 5-7 over, I've never been pulled over - coast to coast, border to border.

    One could also rationalize keeping up with traffic in busy metropolitan areas, since not doing so could be dangerous, given the vulnerablity of a motorcycle vs. a cage or large truck. Law enforcement knows that, and would much rather see a "broad brush" flow of traffic than be investigating a fatality.

    But neither of those behaviors provokes a knee-jerk response from LEO's. Ergo, no need to "be on the lookout for them" unless excessive speeding is SOP.

  3. #18
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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  4. #19
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Lazy cops. Easier to go to court with 'imperical evidence' (radar print-out) than to convince judge/jury that the lane deviations were "unsafe,' given the lack of a collision.
    I understand that reasoning Kevin.......
    I ran into someone that I stopped some 30+ years previously and he, while I remember the stop, reminded me of the outcome.... He at around 15 years was driving a VW in the industrial park main road weaving in and out of the islands. His mother was in the passenger seat- sort of a driving lesson. To shorten the story, I reminded him of the possible consequences, told him not to practice on a public way and let him (them) go.

    Perhaps when a LEO sees someone taking the exit from the third without what seems to be a care in the world, while not a "marked lane violation" exactly, could take the time to remind them there are others on the road.

    BTW, the 15YO operator I stopped so long ago was still thankful- and respectful.

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  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post

    But lazy still applies to an afore mentioned scenario, when the lesser of two infractions are enforced because it's an easier day in court.
    I have long known that radar made speeding citations the easy one since they seldom devolved into "he said - he said."

    But I now ponder if the widespread use of dash cameras might not change things a little. Lots of violations can now be shown to the judge/jury.

    I just drove from Des Moines, Iowa to far southwest Texas - from Iowa through Oklahoma on Interstate or turnpike roads and through much of Texas on four lane roads. I couldn't count the number of times I saw cars going 75 to 80 with about a one car length gap; this even when there was light traffic using only one of several lanes. There were several occasions where I was passing a car or truck, behind other passing cars, and some road bully pulled up so close behind me that I could see the windshield but not even the headlights on his car. It seems like somebody has to crash and folks have to get hurt or die before LEOs do much about it.

    This behavior is a far sight more dangerous than speeding a few over.
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  6. #21
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    Agree. Don't think it's because I got older, but drivers today, having greatly improved vehicles, snap handling, great brakes, lots of standard HP, all sorts of safety designed into standard fare, myriad of tech devices handheld, clicking away, seem to operate their cages with little regard for their's or other's safety.

    If driving my F-150 I get respect, (it's bigger), than my grocery getter Scion. And the motorcycle even less because it's presents little alarm to a cage driver. Its size is contemptible to a cage ramming its way through traffic. Back roads have their own distinct hazards. One of which is the warm fuzzy feeling that things are much safer, because yer not on the slab. Leaving and entering driveway can also be a leap of faith. What could happen, yer going only three MPH? A big hurdle is containing yer id when abused by other's bad dangerous driving.

    There's a lot going on out on the road. The police are the my last problem.

  7. #22
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Like other western states, Montana has relatively high speed limits. Interstates are 80 MPH and most rural two lane roads are 70 MPH. Those that have been on the Beartooth Pass may remember that when entering Montana from Wyoming at the top of the pass there are signs saying "Welcome to Montana" and "Speed Limit 70 MPH". Good luck doing 70. We live a 1/4 mile off a state highway with a 70 MPH limit. I ride/drive it regularly for about seven miles towards town and 20 miles in the other direction to the Continental Divide in Flesher Pass, and I cannot recall ever being passed while doing the limit. I often find myself behind a driver doing 50-55 MPH who seems oblivious to what they are doing. There is one very elderly woman who seldom goes over 45. I suspect she has no other option but to continue to drive well beyond the time when she should stop. I followed her once when she was doing 35 in the rain and crossed the centerline repeatedly. I talked to a deputy who said he would try to talk to her. He asked if I wanted a call back and I said no so I do not know what happened, but I have not seen her in quite awhile. Slow driving leads to dangerous situations. While in my truck I dutifully follow the slow pokes and sometimes get passed in double yellow zones that comprise much of the road. I too am guilty of passing in a double yellow when on a bike. Illegal, yes, and I will accept the consquences if cited, but in my assessment not unsafe given the my sightline and relative speed differential. In Montana it is legal to do 10 MPH over the speed limit when passing on a two lane highway.
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  8. #23
    Registered User Guenther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    That presumes that exceeding posted speed limits is necessarily unsafe; it is not in many cases.
    Maybe it is the OTHER guy on the road that can't handle going above the speed limit with multi distractions around.

    Like getting passed by a Porsche going top speed on HW 50 in Nevada. That was scary!

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ninety8 View Post
    Agree. Don't think it's because I got older, but drivers today, having greatly improved vehicles, snap handling, great brakes, lots of standard HP, all sorts of safety designed into standard fare, myriad of tech devices handheld, clicking away, seem to operate their cages with little regard for their's or other's safety.

    If driving my F-150 I get respect, (it's bigger), than my grocery getter Scion. And the motorcycle even less because it's presents little alarm to a cage driver. Its size is contemptible to a cage ramming its way through traffic. Back roads have their own distinct hazards. One of which is the warm fuzzy feeling that things are much safer, because yer not on the slab. Leaving and entering driveway can also be a leap of faith. What could happen, yer going only three MPH? A big hurdle is containing yer id when abused by other's bad dangerous driving.

    There's a lot going on out on the road. The police are the my last problem.
    Precisely.

    Statistically, super slabs (interstates) are far safer than the so-called scenic backroads. Interstates get a bad rap because, due to high speeds, when there are collisions, the destruction and death-toll is horrific and newsworthy. But with controlled entry and exit, multiple lanes to accommodate passing and surfaces and radii engineered for posted speeds, they are inherently safer for the motorcyclist.

    I point out to my students in every BRC that intersections, not the freeway, present the greatest danger and highest percentage of collisions.

    I embrace the US Interstate System as my corridors to adventure, and still stop many times along the way to discover new places and experiences. The time I save in travel from A to B is re-invested in time spent at B or C or D!

    Improving vehicles without improving how people drive them (education, followed up by enforcement) only results in crashes involving impressively sophisticated machines, operated by impressively incompetent drivers.

  10. #25
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    Ride in two axis (X and Y) but think in three (X and Y and Z). I like to be aware of what is happening all around me, situational awareness if you will, or can, is a very good thing for self preservation on two wheels. Trust your skills and training primarily instead of relying primarily on your gadgets.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    Ride in two axis (X and Y) but think in three (X and Y and Z). I like to be aware of what is happening all around me, situational awareness if you will, or can, is a very good thing for self preservation on two wheels. Trust your skills and training primarily instead of relying primarily on your gadgets.

    Friedle
    Like I preach to my students: "See everything, but prioritize what can hurt you."

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    That presumes that exceeding posted speed limits is necessarily unsafe; it is not in many cases.
    Thanks! The premise that speed limits are somehow determined to be the safest and any deviation is unsafe is a flawed starting point.

    Speed limits are a combination of politics, safety and most common practice...maybe NO speed limits andf recklesness as the determining factor makes more sense?

    apropos of nothing:
    http://www.lsp.org/pdf/troopc85thSpeed.pdf

  13. #28
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    The city I worked for started using this program and many folks had a-ha moments. It was designed for fleet operations, but transfers to all drivers.

    www.drivedifferent.com

    There are copyrights so will not show the five keys. I have used them so long it is almost automatic in my brain toolkit on the road.

    On the Interstates use, I dislike sharing the road with a steady convoy of 18 wheelers. Some are not as congested, or so some say, but the ones I have used leave me exhausted and not a happy participant. Dodging large road gators and trying to get around side by side rigs is not a fun day in my experience. I guess some folks have fewer options and a different mindset and if it is your thing, so it goes.

    West of the Big Muddy, the US Highways as well as many state roads have the same speed limits and the I-roads are less plentiful anyways. To each his own, but I,like the late Charles Kuralt, prefer the road less travele. Gotta love his quote "Thanks to the Interstate Highway System, it is now possible to travel across the country from coast to coast without seeing anything"
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  14. #29
    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    The city I worked for started using this program and many folks had a-ha moments. It was designed for fleet operations, but transfers to all drivers.

    www.drivedifferent.com

    There are copyrights so will not show the five keys. I have used them so long it is almost automatic in my brain toolkit on the road.
    ...
    It's OK to link to the keys on their web site: https://www.drivedifferent.com/smith5keys/
    Larry
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  15. #30
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    I wonder if this Smith System is adaptable for a classroom presentation at say, the BMW MOA Rally in Lebanon? I bet it would be very popular and the per capita cost would not be very high.
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