What do young riders want?

Visian · Dec 30, 2018

kthflieger said:
Last year, at the DSM rally, one of the young riders I was talking to while we were doing the GEARS training, looked around and made a very poignant observation: He pointed at the midway and said look at the age of these guys - if this doesn't change this will be a perishable organization. The rest of the conversation centered around how lucky he was to find a really sweet deal on his BMW, but most of his friends could only afford rising sun bikes.

I copied/pasted your post to the Delta Haus U-55 Facebook Group, here is a reply. Don't kill the messenger, I am only trying to improve communication across our various platforms:

LOL @ GEARS!!! How many young riders have the ability to wait a whole year so they can drive halfway across the country to take a riding class? And then to put ridiculous limitations on who can participate? That program earns my biggest middle finger. MOA is all about ATGATT but fails to comprehend education is the most critical part of it all and they do zip to facilitate that. If the MOA really wanted to make an effort- they’d utilize their YouTube channel to share the GEARS training in videos, they could also work to provide training days with local dealers.

Oh wait, they’d first have to accept it is a dying group because it lacks the ability to connect with and engage new riders.

There are a couple of really good points there. My opinion is that I understand Camp GEARs but that the MOA is failing to effectively target the demographic that will increase our membership in the shorter term: 30-40 somethings with some disposable income. Note that our Getaways are a $5-700 weekend proposition, out of reach for most of this segment... let alone being something they're not really interested in doing.

One counterpoint I made to this person was to ask if they were aware that the MOA Foundation pays money to help offset the cost of training.

Omega Man · Dec 30, 2018

How about baby steps.......every now and then mention what the GEARS acronym stands for?

:hide

om

BC1100S · Dec 30, 2018

Visian said:
I copied/pasted your post to the Delta Haus U-55 Facebook Group, here is a reply.....

Hmm, seems like a typical social media response/post where the writer attacks the original poster due to either a lack of understanding on the subject or because they simply disagree with the idea presented and must therefore cast it in a negative light. I'm surprised Hitler wasn't referenced.

52184 · Dec 30, 2018

GEARS is a great program, but partly misses the point on expanding the base since it is largely preaching to the choir. Attendees appear to often be the offspring or relatives of existing BMW riders/MOA members, hence their attendance at the limited number of events where GEARS is offered.

How many G310R bikes has BMW donated to MSF Rider Ed programs, or at least made available at a drastically reduced cost or as loaners?

Has MOA looked into offering Weekend Getaways that are held not at resort destinations but at suitable training destinations, with the focus being on running in parallel a GEARS program along with an ERC or other program for those already experienced and in the fold? Or would there not be enough angry old white guys in attendance to make it pay?

BMW and MOA both profess to be focused on “conquest sales”, yet both need more direct on-the-ground efforts for that focus to be believable. IMHO, of course.

Best,
DG

pglaves · Dec 30, 2018

Visian said:
I copied/pasted your post to the Delta Haus U-55 Facebook Group, here is a reply. Don't kill the messenger, I am only trying to improve communication across our various platforms:

Well that certainly sounds like a very angry person wanting to be given something. On that alone I would never wish to meet such a negative person. The BMW MOA is better off without him or her. But it does reveal something about the image the BMW MOA has attained, as it is criticized even for the good things it does.

1957mpd · Dec 30, 2018

Gears?

Omega Man said:
How about baby steps.......every now and then mention what the GEARS acronym stands for?
om

+1. I've no idea what the GEARS acronym stands for in BMW MOA and am pretty sure it does not stand for Gradient Elearning Advanced Readiness System, as it does in the DoD. :dunno

Omega Man · Dec 30, 2018

1957mpd said:
+1. I've no idea what the GEARS acronym stands for in BMW MOA and am pretty sure it does not stand for Gradient Elearning Advanced Readiness System, as it does in the DoD.

I looked it up once, can't remember what it was.....don't feel like looking....just trying to make a point. If it's so important- promote it! So many guests here on the forum...and Members, may want to know. Maybe one of the big cheeses in the GEARS program wants to do a story about it? Let everyone (mostly everyone) know what they are missing- and could be enjoying :dunno

Good technical writing usually goes like this....
One of the benefits of attending a BMW MOA rally is for young riders to attend a Gaining Early Advanced Riding Skills (GEARS) program. The GEARS program is an effort to teach young riders basic motorcycling skills that will contribute to having a fun, safe motorcycling experience.
crap- looked it up and spilled the beans

I'm pretty sure the DARE program didn't stand for Drugs Are Real Exciting :eek

OM

Friedle · Dec 30, 2018

1957mpd said:
+1. I've no idea what the GEARS acronym stands for in BMW MOA and am pretty sure it does not stand for Gradient Elearning Advanced Readiness System, as it does in the DoD.

LOVE IT ! Nobody has more ridiculous, obscure and absolutely scrambled acronyms than ANY branch of the DoD. :dance

Friedle

pglaves · Dec 30, 2018

Having spent more than ten years as one of the instructors at G.E.A.R.S. I am biased. I think it is a worthwhile program. I do wish that some rich benefactor would provide funding so that the BMW MOA could bring the program including the on-bike instruction to regional rallies or getaways. I have not seen such forthcoming. In our earliest years we had a budget of $300 to $500 to feed and teach a dozen or so young riders for two days. The program has now expanded to provide several hours of on range training for new or almost new riders. We still teach such other mundane stuff as accident scene management, trip planning, weather and riding, how to pack your motorcycle for a long trip etc. It has aways been aimed at riders under 26. There are plenty of other training options for older riders and they have been presented at the rallies for as long as I can remember - at least back to the mid 80s. I see no need for it to be insulted by a middle finger salute, even if that poster does have anger issues.

pglaves · Dec 30, 2018

Omega Man said:
I looked it up once, can't remember what it was.....don't feel like looking....just trying to make a point. If it's so important- promote it! So many guests here on the forum...and Members, may want to know. Maybe one of the big cheeses in the GEARS program wants to do a story about it? Let everyone (mostly everyone) know what they are missing- and could be enjoying
OM

Well, for as long as I can remember, back about 12 or 13 years or so, there has been an article about GEARS in advance, urging members to get young riders to the program, and then after the rally a recap, usually written and submitted by one of the young riders. So that is maybe 25 ON articles about GEARS.

Visian · Dec 31, 2018

GTRider said:
Has MOA looked into offering Weekend Getaways that are held not at resort destinations but at suitable training destinations, with the focus being on running in parallel a GEARS program along with an ERC or other program for those already experienced and in the fold? Or would there not be enough angry old white guys in attendance to make it pay?

This is a great point... if the MOA were to work with Chartered Clubs and BMW dealers to do local Camp GEARS... and **advertise it** in social media, I think the program would be far more successful

Isn't this what the MOA Foundation is supposed to do?

PGlaves said:
Well that certainly sounds like a very angry person wanting to be given something. On that alone I would never wish to meet such a negative person. The BMW MOA is better off without him or her. But it does reveal something about the image the BMW MOA has attained, as it is criticized even for the good things it does.

I have never met this person, just trying to, um, foster communications and a sense of family in the BMW riding community. {cough}

Voni was invited to be a member of this group, maybe you could go there and help foster some communications. Remember... the person you think has a bad attitude is just one person... there will be several hundred people reading your reply. It's an opportunity to show the real MOA. :nod

(I honestly do not know what the future holds for this group... but I do know it was formed as a result of a very negative experience in Des Moines and a sincere interest in bringing change to the BMW riding community. Right now they're trying to decide whether the MOA is worth it or that they just go their own way.)

PGlaves said:
Having spent more than ten years as one of the instructors at G.E.A.R.S. I am biased. I think it is a worthwhile program. I do wish that some rich benefactor would provide funding so that the BMW MOA could bring the program including the on-bike instruction to regional rallies or getaways. I have not seen such forthcoming.

I have heard tell of BMW Motorrad offering a trailer full of 310s for the MOA to use as trainers. I was told that the MOA judged this to be too complicated. I bet local clubs and dealers would trip all over themselves to take advantage of this at their rallies.

I see no need for it to be insulted by a middle finger salute, even if that poster does have anger issues.

It is what it is. I don't like it either, but as a marketing person, I listen closely and observe interactions to spot opportunities to move things forward.

Not trying to sound negative, but the perception held by a LOT of younger riders is that the M in MOA stands for "money"... and that member money is spent mainly on some sizable salaries. Again, just being the messenger.

It's up to us to engage these people in a friendly and accepting way, state the truth and look past the middle fingers. It's hard for me to express the damage that is done when we do otherwise, either on-line or at our rallies and other events.

Ian

Visian · Dec 31, 2018

PGlaves said:
Well, for as long as I can remember, back about 12 or 13 years or so, there has been an article about GEARS in advance, urging members to get young riders to the program, and then after the rally a recap, usually written and submitted by one of the young riders. So that is maybe 25 ON articles about GEARS.

I understand your sentiment but you have to understand that NONE of these articles reach our intended audience. Since the BMW ON goes only to us, we are simply talking to ourselves (beyond some amount of pass-along readership).

Visian · Dec 31, 2018

Oh... and I will volunteer.

If the MOA supports it, I will reach out to other publications to see if there is an interest in doing an article about the Camp GEARS effort.

greenwald · Dec 31, 2018

PGlaves said:
Well that certainly sounds like a very angry person wanting to be given something. On that alone I would never wish to meet such a negative person. The BMW MOA is better off without him or her. But it does reveal something about the image the BMW MOA has attained, as it is criticized even for the good things it does.

Careful Paul. Though I'm never impressed with the middle finger, after your comments about those who prefer cruise control "had better sell their bikes without it, and I'll be watching the market to see if they're honest," I think you need to get out and ride, After all, you live in a climate that accommodates such therapy this time of year.

Freezing rain expected here in WI today and tonight. Might help the drunks drive straighter?! :dunno

I can tolerate you being a Democrat, but don't you dare turn into a grouchy old man in 2019.

Happy New Year!

sanctuarydrive · Dec 31, 2018

In following this thread, I think a point has been lost in the discussion that needs to be stated. To Paul, Voni, and all the other people who have volunteered to do the GEARS training, I want to give you all a "BIG THANK YOU". The GEARS training is very good and it would be great to have this type of refresher again for me (looking at some classes for this Spring). Unfortunately, I barely missed being age eligible to take the GEARS training myself (by a mere 40 years). Any time we are providing motorcycle training for riders, regardless of the manufacturer of the bikes, it is a very good thing!

Voni · Jan 1, 2019

Time for another plug for Foundation Programs.

How about a scholarship for you to take the training you choose?

https://www.bmwmoa.org/page/paulb

The Paul B. Memorial Scholarship Fund was established in 2011 to honor the memory of Paul Bachorz. Paul was an avid BMW motorcyclist with a big heart and a love for the BMW riding community. He was an active member of the BMW MOA and a regular contributor to the BMW Owners News as editor of the “Touring Tips” column. Paul was also a member of his local chapter, the BMW Motorcycle Owners of Vermont who generously provided the seed money to establish a scholarship fund in his memory. The MOA Foundation has continued to fund the scholarship program on an annual basis to further our mission supporting rider safety, education and training.

The purpose of the Paul B. Scholarship is to award grants to individuals in the motorcycle riding community to assist them in pursuing rider education and training opportunities. The Foundation will award grants of up to $250 for MOA members, or up to $100 for non-members (neither amount to exceed the actual cost of the training), towards the cost of participation in an approved training course. A committee comprised of 3 Foundation Board members will review all requests submitted and exercise broad discretion in approving training proposals.

Individuals interested in receiving a scholarship should complete the submission form below or download the pdf version and submit via email to PAULB@BMWMOAF.ORG. Requests must be submitted at least 30 days prior to the registration deadline for the training course selected and should contain a description of the training including the training provider, cost, location, and dates of the training. In no case will grants be approved for scholarship requests submitted after a training or rider education program has been completed. You can expect to be contacted by the Foundation within 10 days of submitting your scholarship request. Grants are limited to individuals and one grant per applicant annually.

Thanks, Paul B. Your friends and fellow BMW riders continue to be touched by your generosity.

Apply for a $250 Paul B. Scholarship to attend the rider training of your choice. Complete the web form below or DOWNLOAD THE APPLICATION, complete and forward via email to PAULB@BMWMOAF.ORG. Paul B. photo by Mitch Group.

Voni sMiling

Visian · Jan 1, 2019

Voni said:
Time for another plug for Foundation Programs.

Voni - While you can't post in red in Facebook

I think is would be beneficial to make your post there:

I think the Chief would appreciate the effort (good LORD, he would have *hated* Facebook! :ha

)

Omega Man · Jan 1, 2019

Once all those involved decide on promoting and expanding all this young rider/learn to ride/enjoy the MOA rider programs, perhaps a how to access these programs can be explained in a post.
Perhaps those who would like to promote their MSF programs could join in :dunno

Perhaps it could be a Best of Forum as guests read the BOF section pretty regular.
If anyone or a group wants to give it a go and needs assistance, the Moderators are always here to help.
OM

Visian · Jan 1, 2019

Omega Man said:
Once all those involved decide on promoting and expanding all this young rider/learn to ride/enjoy the MOA rider programs, perhaps a how to access these programs can be explained in a post.

Hit up the MOA Foundation peeps for those answers. In past years I've found you need to bug people... if you wait for them to call you might be waiting a long time!

One other question I have, are there things *other* than training that young riders want? (I know there are... this is a rhetorical question)

pglaves · Jan 1, 2019

Visian said:
Hit up the MOA Foundation peeps for those answers. In past years I've found you need to bug people... if you wait for them to call you might be waiting a long time!

One other question I have, are there things *other* than training that young riders want? (I know there are... this is a rhetorical question)

What young riders (and almost everybody else too) want is acceptance. And respect. And understanding. And gentle mentoring. And not to be ridiculed. Or chastised for lack of ATGATT. I judge new riders by what I did as a beginner, not by what I do now.

I remember my first "long" motorcycle trip, two up on an RD250, in 60 degree weather in North Dakota and Manitoba. I certainly wish some compassionate person had told me a denim jeans jacket was not going to be warm enough. Once we got to Winnipeg I couldn't get Voni out of the hot tub, for hours.

I recall arriving under an underpass in a rainstorm in Colorado to find a "kid" (18 or so) in his sweat shirt and sweat pants and his Virago trying to survive the rain as he headed to see his girlfriend in Oregon. Since I was wearing an Aerostich but had an old Dry Rider in the tail cone I gave him the rainsuit, wished him well, and headed on down the road.

What do young riders want?

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