What do young riders want?

Great question and discussion.

I grew up in a small town in New Brunswick and most of us had bikes when we were teenagers. We would whip around the fields, build some jumps and hit the logging roads - all while being protected by jeans, shirt, helmet and work boots -yikes! After HS motorcycles disappeared from my life until my youngest was 10 or 11 and then we got some dirt bikes. I have 3 boys (21, 24, & 26) and only one of them rides now. My oldest lives 1.5 miles from his work and figured a motorcycle would be an easy way to get back and forth to work through most of the year (lives in St Louis). He bought a Honda CB500Xwhich has been a great first bike for him for commuting. He has no interest in touring, it was really just a convenience decision for him.

I work at a college and we teach a motorcycle course and easily 90% of the students are guys in their 40's. When I look at the bikes parked at the college, all except for a half dozen belong to staff. From my personal experience with my boys and what I see at work, the motorcycle industry definitely hasn't figured out how to attract young riders yet.

"For the times they are a-changin'." Bob Dylan

jgoertz said:

Times are certainly different today. In the 60's, there was no internet, no game consoles, and TV's only showed 3, maybe 4-5 channels. Kids played outside and made up games. We went to the drugstores by ourselves. At the drugstore we looked through the magazine racks, and some of us got hooked on Cycle and Cycle World magazines and lusted after the bikes we saw on those shiny pages.

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I am involved with non-motorized trail development. Its not uncommon to see a school built without a way to walk to it. One of the stats they put out recently at a conference was that the typical child spends less time outside than a federal prisoner. Federal prisoners, it seems, get two hours outside each day and use it. No so much with our youngsters. Moreover there was some legislation kicked around to impact on this, it was called something like "No Child Left Inside".

I sure miss Cycle. I remember the column, called something like, the Downhill Straight. Cycle frequently reworked the occasional street bike for battle at Daytona. Last but not least the reports of Kevin Cameron making the Factory Kawasaki Team crazy by coming up with speed they couldn't while operating out of the back of a van.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71449 Life

Proactive approach

When I started a family, my wife made the decision that we would not ride motorcycles until the last one finished college. When that happened I was back on a bike in a heartbeat. My children have no interest in riding because they didn't have exposure to it growing up. Now the grand children are another story. I bought a 4 wheeler for them when they started getting old enough to ride it. The oldest will ride it some but has more interest in his Ipad. His younger brother on the other hand rides the wheels off it and is a dare devil. When he turned 5, I took him on his short ride around the neighborhood. He absolutely loves to ride. Now that he is 8, I take him on longer rides of over 100 miles on rural back roads. Since We are ATGATT riders, he is too. Finding safety equipment for kids is pretty hard. His grandma just got a Spyder and he is very excited to ride with her too.

My point is, as grand parents, we have some influence on their future (with parents permission). He will be a motorcyclist when he is old enough to ride his own. I still have 2 more grandchildren to young to ride yet. With a little luck, I will add 2 more riders to the pack.

wkoppa said:

Last but not least the reports of Kevin Cameron making the Factory Kawasaki Team crazy by coming up with speed they couldn't while operating out of the back of a van.

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Kevin Cameron is still writing for CycleWorld and his work is still great. I had the pleasure of sharing a dinner table with him at a BMW press event in Daytona. What a great motorcyclist.

lstayner said:

When I started a family, my wife made the decision that we would not ride motorcycles until the last one finished college. When that happened I was back on a bike in a heartbeat. My children have no interest in riding because they didn't have exposure to it growing up. Now the grand children are another story. I bought a 4 wheeler for them when they started getting old enough to ride it. The oldest will ride it some but has more interest in his Ipad. His younger brother on the other hand rides the wheels off it and is a dare devil. When he turned 5, I took him on his short ride around the neighborhood. He absolutely loves to ride. Now that he is 8, I take him on longer rides of over 100 miles on rural back roads. Since We are ATGATT riders, he is too. Finding safety equipment for kids is pretty hard. His grandma just got a Spyder and he is very excited to ride with her too.

My point is, as grand parents, we have some influence on their future (with parents permission). He will be a motorcyclist when he is old enough to ride his own. I still have 2 more grandchildren to young to ride yet. With a little luck, I will add 2 more riders to the pack.

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What a cool grandpa!

Our grandson Brody took Camp GEARS at the National last year. He's definitely going to be a rider. His old brother Noah was working so couldn't get the time off, but he's hankering for two wheels too.

Voni
sMiling

"Life's just much too hard today, I hear every mother say. The pursuit of happiness just seems a bore."

Although this was written in '66, it still applies.

I'm not particularly surpirised that today's youth aren't riding motorcycles in similar numbers to what they did previously. Number 1 - Pastimes are cyclical. And motorcycles are a pastime/hobby. Number 2 - Disposable income (for younger workers) is down. Number 3 - If any of you have been paying attention you will have noticed that carbon producing vehicles and activities are generally shunned in school and media alike. There's more but you get my drift.

Will our sport thrive or die? Beats me but in the meantime I'm not going to be the one tilting at windmills.

I've rode all my life and all over the U.S.
until this year, Why?
Because it is no longer any fun to ride with all the traffic and dangerous.

That's 40 years !

csargent said:

Because it is no longer any fun to ride with all the traffic and dangerous.

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There's still a lot of roads in the US with little or no traffic.

Lee said:

There's still a lot of roads in the US with little or no traffic.

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I understand what he is saying... Around here it’s between 1 and 3 through the red light. Exits are taken from the 3rd lane. You can expect to be passed by someone taking the same exit as you.
OM

csargent said:

I've rode all my life and all over the U.S.
until this year, Why?
Because it is no longer any fun to ride with all the traffic and dangerous.

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From your profile I have no idea where in the US where it is no longer any fun to ride. I do suspect there are places where that might be true - confined to urban America. In a car I just spent better than 1/2hour to go 3 miles. In a stupid city.

But if you can escape the urban nonsense you will find rural and small town America where riding is still a joy. Grasp it!

Added Editorial Note: Please fill out a decent profile so we have at least a chance of figuring out who you are, where you live, what your riding environment is like, what you ride and what you like and don't. If everybody did this the entire Forum would be the better for it.

23217 said:

A couple of years ago after I had attended my 40th HS reunion, the principal of the High School asked some of us to come speak to the kids. The principal said that many of the kids feel demoralized and feel the future is hopeless. So, we went to the school and spoke to a majority kids in the school. Afterwards, we had a chance to sit down and talk with some of the kids one-on-one. When the principal and teachers were not around, they started to ask about some of the pranks and stunts that past kids had done in the school. I was a little shocked when I found out that I was involved in about half the pranks. It seems that some of the kids idolized me. I just thought of myself as a regular kid. But, after talking with the kids. I found out that they can't get away with anything. And punishments are severe. I think most of them feel that they are not allowed to have fun. And, this is how they live their lives.

When I was in 12th grade I bought my first BMW. It was used, but only a year old. Rode it to school whenever I could. Took my first International trip at 18. My feeling is that if you can't live a little bit on the wild side, life will pass you by. It seems that the latest generation of kids are afraid to live a good life.

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+1 . Very similar experience. Bought my first BMW as a high school senior in 1974 and even though I also had a '63 convertible VW Bug (which engine I rebuilt), I rode the bike most of the time and right through 4 yrs of college. Doing either is unimaginable to the kids I meet today at New Mexico State U where I fool around taking the odd grad school class just to keep my mind from going mushy. On a campus with 17K full-time students, I have never seen more than 20 motorcycles parked during the day and we can ride 12 months a year. 90% of these are Japanese. Of the rest - my GSA, a Duc, a KLM, a 'Guzzi, an Aprilla, and a few HDs. I get a lot of questions about my bike and riding, but the kids are so preoccupied with containing their college debt, recreational purchases are out-of-bounds. It's a different economic world than when I was in college in the 70s, when no one I knew graduated with any significant debt.

From Facebook Group, Delta Haus U-55

I posted a link to this thread in a Facebook Group called Delta Haus U-55 that got started in hopes of bringing change to the BMW riding community, in part the MOA. I did this in hopes of some of the people there maaaayyybeeee coming here to discuss. Nothing yet.... I am betting they have no idea what their password is.

So here is a cut/paste from a young lady I know that works in the powersports industry:

I’ve spent a lot of time the past couple years at MC events organized by millennials. They buy used bikes, they value experiences over things, and they aren’t joiners. I camped in Joshua Tree with 1,500, in NY with 500, and rode across Wyoming with 50 or so and then spent a couple extra days riding around Idaho with a few of them. They love riding. Once bitten by the bug - they get their friends riding, and they’re enthusiastic and full of joy.

They don’t have it all figured out. They don’t all wear great gear, but many wear helmets. They’re new riders, they’re learning, they’ll figure out the benefit of good gear eventually. They’ll maybe buy a better bike later (or more old stuff) if they keep at it.

The “industry” doesn’t get it because it’s the same circle of old men who keep doing the same **** over and over and don’t realize the kids don’t care, they’re going to do their own thing, and witnessing that has been so refreshing.

Visian said:

They don’t have it all figured out. They don’t all wear great gear, but many wear helmets. They’re new riders, they’re learning, they’ll figure out the benefit of good gear eventually. They’ll maybe buy a better bike later (or more old stuff) if they keep at it.

The “industry” doesn’t get it because it’s the same circle of old men who keep doing the same **** over and over and don’t realize the kids don’t care, they’re going to do their own thing, and witnessing that has been so refreshing.[/I]

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And, if they happened to get around a bunch of BMW MOA members they would be lectured or ridiculed because they are not ATGATT, and would be criticized because they have modified their "classic" motorcycle. If the long term survival of the BMW MOA is important, we are our own worst enemy.

jgoertz said:

Times are certainly different today. In the 60's, there was no internet, no game consoles, and TV's only showed 3, maybe 4-5 channels. Kids played outside and made up games. We went to the drugstores by ourselves. At the drugstore we looked through the magazine racks, and some of us got hooked on Cycle and Cycle World magazines and lusted after the bikes we saw on those shiny pages. These magazines were only 50 cents/issue (IIRC). On these pages, among the ads for BSA's, Triumphs, Norton's, and other machines, were ads for Honda 50's, Yamaha 80's, Suzuki 50's, and other fun, lightweight bikes you could legally license @ age 14 (at least in OK), and you could buy one new for under $350. (A Honda S-90 was $425 when it arrived on the scene). These lightweight, fun machines hooked many of us. At my school, the parking lot was filled with motor motorcycles than cars. In the 70's, the bike (bicycle) boom hit (along with the gas crunch), and these same parking lots filled with bicycles. Go look at your nearest jr high and hi school parking lot -- do you see a single bicycle or motorcycle in the parking lot? Even scarier, as the principal/superintendent if your 15-yo could ride his bicycle/motorcycle to school. Don't be surprised when he tells you -- in no uncertain terms -- that if s/he rides to school on a two-wheeler (even with a license in the case of a motorcycle), s/he will be asked to leave school and come back by mommy's care or by the school bus, and if s/he does it again, it's detention or suspension!

With attitudes like we find today by the adults in charge, how can we expect our youngsters to want to learn how to ride on the road? And this doesn't even take into account the increase in danger on the roads.

Your thoughts?

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All too true. I fear that motorcycles may be doomed to the fate of the Steel-pipe "Monkey Bars" that I so loved as a kid. It's rare to see those anymore. No one wants to accept that sometimes things are inherently not safe, but may still be good, overall.

We have gone from the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave to the land of the bubble wrapped weenies. Makes me sad.

Anyone may feel free to disagree, I'll not argue the point. Like motorcycling, if I have to explain it (further) you won't understand.

PGlaves said:

And, if they happened to get around a bunch of BMW MOA members they would be lectured or ridiculed because they are not ATGATT, and would be criticized because they have modified their "classic" motorcycle. If the long term survival of the BMW MOAis important, we are our own worst enemy.

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Boy, howdy. The Delta Haus group was formed because of the experience they had in Des Moines. I wasn't there, don't know the details, just stating it so that people are aware.

Another post:

Just because young folks don’t have the exact same interest as older folks does not mean they are doomed. Now it is experiences over possessions. The older generation was wrapped up in the decade of decadence and the battle of “I have the nicer/more expensive stuff.” Also when you have insurmountable debt from college loans, buying a motorcycle is a luxury many can not afford right now.

still hope for the furture

Yes time marches on. Started with Hodaka ACE 90, Kaw 85, Suz 65 and Yam 100s. Bought my first new bike in the spring of 1972 , Yamaha 350 R5C for $801.00 plus taxes and fees. Raising a family and left riding for 25 years. Now days with college and raising a family it is financially difficult, but I am hopeful for the future. Still I only need one bike at a time. Other thing in life are important life too. Cheers.

PGlaves said:

And, if they happened to get around a bunch of BMW MOA members they would be lectured or ridiculed because they are not ATGATT, and would be criticized because they have modified their "classic" motorcycle. If the long term survival of the BMW MOAis important, we are our own worst enemy.

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Well said, Paul. Based on this thread, they're all worthless...

All of this kind of reminds me of why I don't ride with clubs anymore.. ..

Young Riders

I hesitate to post this, but visibility to different opinions is important to the future. I am pretty much the oldest of anyone I ride with, save 2 I think, and I'm in my 50's. All that I've ridden with are happy to ride, have never commented that my bike is dirty, or my gear doesn't match, or whatever. They've been open to conversations and advice and I dare say I call some friends now. Some have been a bit sketchy or don't understand the "rules", but if you explain them with an example of why it's important, then they at least understand what they are. But I'm not perfect and we all have to start somewhere.

I've been to some rally events, but not a huge fan. MOA and RA offer a different venues and different styles, but they are more similar than they are different, and I will likely attend a few in the future. If you look hard enough, you will find the younger ones there also, just in much smaller numbers. Although no matter how many times I've been told the tent path is a must to enjoy the full experience, a toy hauler with air conditioning and a nice bed still wins out - sorry.

I've also found that if not everyone, at least most everyone loves their BMW motorcycles, myself included, and that's awesome. But for many different reasons. In the same light, we can't expect the same from everyone, that diversity is what makes things interesting, and what many people crave. I would argue that there is no difference between the young and the old in most regards with how they regard interaction, they both want it, only the process by which they achieve it differs. Treat a young or new rider like a newbie, complete with lectures and you'll likely see a head buried in a phone as that method of interaction is available to them where it wasn't to "older" people. Engage them like an interested peer and you'll be surprised how often it's hard to get a word in edgewise. But that's just my experience and my opinion. Happy riding to those that aren't snowed in...

Jerry