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Ride?

Hi 23217, Wait and see you say? Well, things weather wise had better change in a big way in these parts (Oregon) because most all of this state is in extreme draught.

What we see in the west is a result of decades of forest mis-management driven primarily by corporate greed. Long term planning is what is needed not changing direction with each shift in political climate. You cannot effectively manage an ecosystem with the pendulum effect simple as that.

To the party that admires the pretty sunsets caused by forest fire smoke I would like to get your ass on the fire line and see how much you like that!

Hey, happy days...my membership in the MOA expired yesterday so that's the last you'll hear from me. See Ya:wave
 
jammess said:
Hi 23217, Wait and see you say? Well, things weather wise had better change in a big way in these parts (Oregon) because most all of this state is in extreme draught.

What we see in the west is a result of decades of forest mis-management driven primarily by corporate greed. Long term planning is what is needed not changing direction with each shift in political climate. You cannot effectively manage an ecosystem with the pendulum effect simple as that.

To the party that admires the pretty sunsets caused by forest fire smoke I would like to get your ass on the fire line and see how much you like that!

Hey, happy days...my membership in the MOA expired yesterday so that's the last you'll hear from me. See Ya:wave
Click to expand...

There has been plenty of mis-management to go around over the last 25 years, including the timber companies, environmental groups and politicians that blow with public opinion.

Many years ago I became friends with a gentleman who had been hired as a lobbyist by the timber industry. The industry, which was mostly independent operators at the time, had been decimated by the organization and PR savvy of the various environmental groups. The groups had successfully eliminated clear cutting (and most PNW timber activities) by using the spotted owl as their rallying cry. According to my friend, here's the irony. The spotted owl finds its food source (vermin) by living in trees on the edge of clear cuts. Once clear cuts were eliminated, spotted owls disappeared because there wasn't any habitat to support them. Clear cutting was not a good forestry management practice and in the opinion of my friend, with better communication and cooperative work between all parties the practice could have been modified so all would win.

Unfortunately, as we watch the finger pointing and complaints about current forestry management, it appears we've learned nothing.
 
Hi Larry, How about that I can still log in. For the most part I agree with you. I might also add that I retired from the BLM after working for Natl. Park Service and spent 14 years on the west side of the Cascades working in an O&C district. While I'm not a forester I worked with mostly foresters and my neighbor at present also retired from BLM and was a district forester so I've heard the arguments both ways for years. IMO, both sides (environmentalist and professional forester) have good points but they seem to have not been able to find the middle ground but gravitate toward extreme points of view kind of like other segments in our society today. I used to tell people that if you want to see a spotted owl just find a clear cut and that is so true. The owl feeds in clear cuts but nests in old growth canopy for protection of its young. Also, the spotted owl mates with the Bard owl so one might have a hard time even finding a pure spotted owl anyway. The environmentalists focused on the spotted owl as a means to stop out of control logging simply because you can't list a tree as endangered (Douglas Fir) but you can list an animal. In the '60s and '70s the timber industry literally went for broke and really did the environment no favors. They totally abandoned any and all sustained yield practices and made no bones about it. Also, most forest professionals are trained in school to think the only good tree is a stump! Well, that's a kind of radical statement but it drives home a point rather well I think.

Point I'm trying to make here is both sides have their faults and I have little hope that true compromise is ever going to happen and who's the big looser? Everyone including the environment and the last time I checked planet Earth is the only show in the known universe where our specie can live. Duuhhhh... What's that old proverb about not s#@**&^g in your own bed? I'm just glad I'm as old as I am and hopefully won't be around to see how all this ends up and I've heard other folks of late express this same sentiment. As our illustrious leader likes to say... "Sad".

Other countries like the Scandinavian ones don't practice clear cutting techniques but instead do selective cutting and it works well for them as well as the environment. I spent a month in Ireland and noticed the Irish don't use wood frame construction when they build homes. I was in an Irish building center and asked one of the employees why this is true and he said they don't do wood frame construction because it won't last and that is so true when you think about it. I asked if the reason was they just didn't have large forests to support this method of construction and that was his reply. Also, they do have some pretty impressive forested land in Ireland but it's managed with true sustained yield as the primary goal and is mostly government controlled with limited access. Not a bad idea when you consider that 82% of wildland fires are human caused in this country. I might also add that we export raw logs from our forests in large quantities so the Irish actually wouldn't have to use their own resources anyway. You want to give mill workers jobs maybe give some thought to only exporting finished lumber instead of raw logs. Kind of a novel idea wouldn't you say and the longshoremen would still keep their jobs as well.

Anyway, just a few final thoughts I have on this subject for what it's worth or not.

You guys have a great holiday season and maybe we'll see you on the road.:)
 
jammess said:
Hi Larry, How about that I can still log in. For the most part I agree with you. I might also add that I retired from the BLM after working for Natl. Park Service and spent 14 years on the west side of the Cascades working in an O&C district. While I'm not a forester I worked with mostly foresters and my neighbor at present also retired from BLM and was a district forester so I've heard the arguments both ways for years. IMO, both sides (environmentalist and professional forester) have good points but they seem to have not been able to find the middle ground but gravitate toward extreme points of view kind of like other segments in our society today. I used to tell people that if you want to see a spotted owl just find a clear cut and that is so true. The owl feeds in clear cuts but nests in old growth canopy for protection of its young. Also, the spotted owl mates with the Bard owl so one might have a hard time even finding a pure spotted owl anyway. The environmentalists focused on the spotted owl as a means to stop out of control logging simply because you can't list a tree as endangered (Douglas Fir) but you can list an animal. In the '60s and '70s the timber industry literally went for broke and really did the environment no favors. They totally abandoned any and all sustained yield practices and made no bones about it. Also, most forest professionals are trained in school to think the only good tree is a stump! Well, that's a kind of radical statement but it drives home a point rather well I think.

Point I'm trying to make here is both sides have their faults and I have little hope that true compromise is ever going to happen and who's the big looser? Everyone including the environment and the last time I checked planet Earth is the only show in the known universe where our specie can live. Duuhhhh... What's that old proverb about not s#@**&^g in your own bed? I'm just glad I'm as old as I am and hopefully won't be around to see how all this ends up and I've heard other folks of late express this same sentiment. As our illustrious leader likes to say... "Sad".

Other countries like the Scandinavian ones don't practice clear cutting techniques but instead do selective cutting and it works well for them as well as the environment. I spent a month in Ireland and noticed the Irish don't use wood frame construction when they build homes. I was in an Irish building center and asked one of the employees why this is true and he said they don't do wood frame construction because it won't last and that is so true when you think about it. I asked if the reason was they just didn't have large forests to support this method of construction and that was his reply. Also, they do have some pretty impressive forested land in Ireland but it's managed with true sustained yield as the primary goal and is mostly government controlled with limited access. Not a bad idea when you consider that 82% of wildland fires are human caused in this country. I might also add that we export raw logs from our forests in large quantities so the Irish actually wouldn't have to use their own resources anyway. You want to give mill workers jobs maybe give some thought to only exporting finished lumber instead of raw logs. Kind of a novel idea wouldn't you say and the longshoremen would still keep their jobs as well.

Anyway, just a few final thoughts I have on this subject for what it's worth or not.

You guys have a great holiday season and maybe we'll see you on the road.:)
Click to expand...

Hey Jim...thanks so much for the further clarification. When greed and domination are the primary drivers of any enterprise, it's no surprise that the enterprise doesn't survive.

All the best to you and your family for a wonderful holiday as well.
 
Rode the northwest this summer, as you know there were fires all over the place. Went around the Redding fire on the west (36, 3, 299, 95: nice roads). Fire north of Medford filled Crater lake full of smoke by early afternoon, couldn't see the lake surface 900 feet down but it was clear in the early morning when I got there. I went through Okanogan NF in north central Washington and thought I'd get turned back because its fire was just over the ridge (man was it dark and smoky) but I wasn't. Every morning for a week I found ashes on my bike until I got to Montana. Road from Yellowstone to Beartooth pass was under construction so they let traffic through in clumps (guess who was stuck in the middle) and folks got spooked and took the switchbacks at 5 mph which is tough on a bike. No rain+hail though which was an improvement over last year.

I'm appalled by the damage done by pine bark beetles, there's no amount of raking that will prevent a fire in a mountainside of dead conifers.

Still, I'm planning on passing through this summer on my way to and/or from Alaska. Having done it more than once I can confidently say that riding ATGATT through Texas in July sucks, just in case anyone wants to know. But I have family there, whadda gonna do?
 
jammess said:
To the party that admires the pretty sunsets caused by forest fire smoke I would like to get your ass on the fire line and see how much you like that!
Click to expand...

???

If you chose not to appreciate the beauty of a smokey sunset, you will have less joy in your life but still the same amount of smoke.
 
Do your touring in late spring in the West

I evacuated the Camp Fire on Nov 8th on my '16 RT, my wife in her Subaru right behind me, losing two homes in Paradise, California. Those were rental properties. Our house survived and is now the only house standing in a 1/4 mile radius. Still haven't been allowed to return to see it, but have pictures and it looks unscathed from the outside, w/ presumably smoke damage throughout and perhaps some singed paint in spots on the exterior. We hope to be allowed back within around 10 days. Flash floods will be a constant threat there now for the coming several years--Paradise has one of the highest rainfall totals in California, 52 inches yearly, and sometimes well over 100, w/ huge downpours happening on occasion.

Being well aware of western fires we took our ride up into the Canadian Rockies this year in late spring, preferring to trade in some rain risk for smoke risk. Shortly after we got home fires began popping up.
 
A couple of years ago I rode to Glacier Park. I left home the Thursday before memorial day. The park was snowed in still when I go there. As I turned south Beartooth Pass in Yellowstone was also closed due snow. Mt Evans in CO opened the day before I got there. This year I went to San Francisco and back through Yellowstone via South Lake Tahoe. No smoke all the passes were open tourist were down since it was after labor day. I got up early and road highway 16A near Mt. Rushmore. There were two other vehicles on the entire ride. I guess you pick a time and hope for the best. I was going to ride through Yosemite. It had been closed due to fires but just reopened . The wait lines were 4-5 hours so I decided to do that park in the future.
 
We spend our anniversary at Chico Hotsprings about 30 miles north of Yellowstone. We can normally ride to Chico from our home and in most years ride thru Yellowstone on our way home. Not all roads are open but there are very few people in the park. Old Faithful has maybe 20-30 people roaming around; in the summer there are thousands of tourists. A good rule is to try to visit parks on a weekday when schools are in session. Yellowstone is unbearable during their peak tourist season.
 
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