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Thread: more ethanol content

  1. #1
    Jammess jammess's Avatar
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    more ethanol content

    Just read a disturbing article in what's left of our daily newspaper no thanks to the internet but that's another distasteful subject. Seems a certain politician who shall remain nameless just gave the green light to higher ethanol content in motor fuel. Now, I no longer own an airhead myself but I do wonder how you folks that admire and ride these fine examples of two wheeled conveyances from the not to distant past are going to deal with this. Where I live it's fairly easy to obtain ethanol free fuel at least for now but this isn't the case everywhere as I've become well aware in my travels.
    Jammess

    '93 R1100RSL, '10 FJR1300A
    MOA # 50714

  2. #2
    Liaison 20774's Avatar
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    As I read things and heard about this, the change is to allow E15 to be sold in summer months...it's currently restricted during that time. E15 is already out there and is used on a limited basis in flex-fuel vehicles. It doesn't appear that E10 (the ethanol we are most familiar with) will still be around and sounds like in great quantities.

    I have not experienced any significant issues using E10 in my bikes. All have had their top ends changed which helps with the long standing issues of no lead going many years back.
    Kurt -- Forum Liaison ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  3. #3
    From the information I read on this subject, I find some very specific issues with situation en-total and I will be blunt when I say that the political aspect is to me far deeper than the publicly displayed aspects. But I digress:

    The issue is over E-15 or 15% ethanol. Ethanol is by definition in the mechanical side an additive to oxygenate and to octane boost the gasoline.
    The problem lies in that vehicles made prior to the mid 2000's are susceptible to the overtly corrosive nature of the ethanol blends.

    In older vehicles ethonol causes rubber and certain plastic components to swell and break down quicker due to the afore mentioned oxygenation aspect. for those with long enough memories, the EPA in all its infanate wisdom allowed use of Methanol in the early 1980's and it cause some MASSIVE damage to vehicles, because Methanol (though was suppose to help cut down on smog) actually caused many more problems.
    That along with MTBE contamination

    That has sense been addressed.

    E15 however has not yet been fully proven to be either effective or practicle in large sense because many studies have shown that the higher ethanol content is similar in nature to the methanol problems with corrosion and moreover just like with E10, it absorbs water and will sink to the bottom of a gas tank and cause corrosion because of the water/alcohol effects.

    There is much more to this but thats the basic jist of the E15 problem itself.

    The political side ( I will avoid the crass nature of name calling) but the focus is on the production of corn in Iowa and other states that are producing vast amounts of corn for fuel. The farmers are not only afraid of tariffs, (in the short run could be a problem but the long run I see something else).
    Plus the EPA has a long history of stopping E15 during the Obama years.
    The grand irony is that all throughout the 1990's the push for near TOTAL ethanol was favored by many environmentalists up until it was discovered the issues with corn production and other aspects. The sheer volume was unobtainable and unsustainable.

    Though I believe there may be other aspects to this that are yet unknown.

    Now I personally do not have an airhead, but my bike is a Late 80's brick and there are components that would be VERY susceptible to E15 content and the storage aspect is of concern to me because of the previous damage caused to the aluminum tank.

    This is also true with older vehicles all around.

    But the most I take from this isn't one politician per se, its an approach taken by individuals trying to protect and enhance their desired industries for their gain.

    IMO we need to approach this from an entirely different angle.

  4. #4
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    The separation of alcohol from gas and alcohol's affinity to H2O settling in bottom of brick aluminum tanks, likely cause the common corrosion when ethanol stagnated over the winter months. Same for steel tanks. The fuel additive/ethanol thing for motorcycles is a head scratcher when the real costs are revealed. We fix every leaking faucet to save water while whole aquifers are being depleted for oxygenate production?

    But, little if anything is ever figgered out before political advantage can be figgered out. Can still get straight lead free gas here, however, if almost instant compliance by major manufacturers (BMW) to new rules, it will soon be convenient for rules to simply retire old machinery to the scrap heap of buggy whips. We can trailer our airheads/bricks to rallies, drink beer and remember when. What could the few bikes ridden, even at the height of summertime, do to affect global warming? And older bikes? Even more negligible. But no one bothered to extrapolate that number.

    Like with racing fuels, we may be buying five gallon cans of real gas under special licensing. And then we'll have to buy carbon credits. Need two pensions to enjoy.

  5. #5
    Jammess jammess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ninety8 View Post
    The separation of alcohol from gas and alcohol's affinity to H2O settling in bottom of brick aluminum tanks, likely cause the common corrosion when ethanol stagnated over the winter months. Same for steel tanks. The fuel additive/ethanol thing for motorcycles is a head scratcher when the real costs are revealed. We fix every leaking faucet to save water while whole aquifers are being depleted for oxygenate production?

    But, little if anything is ever figgered out before political advantage can be figgered out. Can still get straight lead free gas here, however, if almost instant compliance by major manufacturers (BMW) to new rules, it will soon be convenient for rules to simply retire old machinery to the scrap heap of buggy whips. We can trailer our airheads/bricks to rallies, drink beer and remember when. What could the few bikes ridden, even at the height of summertime, do to affect global warming? And older bikes? Even more negligible. But no one bothered to extrapolate that number.

    Like with racing fuels, we may be buying five gallon cans of real gas under special licensing. And then we'll have to buy carbon credits. Need two pensions to enjoy.
    Ahhhhh...but you forget, global warming or, if you prefer, global climate change has nothing what soever to do with human activity. Where do i get this info you may ask....GUESS! You should know that this global warming phenomena is just the natural climate cycle of our planet. Now I got a bridge I'll sell ya I think some refer to it as the Golden Gate.
    Jammess

    '93 R1100RSL, '10 FJR1300A
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    And then throw in more huge EMP solar flares and "Houston, we got a problem." Last big one was back in the 1850's. Wasn't a big deal cuz there was no electric stuff, like PCs, phones and such. Fried telegraph lines and keys. Most yawned and threw a log in the stove.

    Possibility for a new industry in providing ethanol proof rubber parts for the old bikes. Redkote the tank, up the jets and yer good to go. Might gain a couple horses.

  7. #7
    Well back to the topic...

    The grand irony of the EPA fuel mileage and Ethanol is the contradiction of the two.
    Ethanol has much less energy per volume than gasoline.
    That means that it takes MORE fuel to do the same amount of work than gasoline. The end result is predictable.
    Higher Ethanol content will bring lower mileage and higher repair costs due to the higher temperatures of the exhaust.

  8. #8
    So does my 2012 GS 1200 have a potential problem with this new e15 or is it new enough to not worry about rubber parts deteriorating?
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    It doesn't appear that E10 (the ethanol we are most familiar with) will still be around .
    I have not seen any mention of getting rid of E10.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  10. #10
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    So does my 2012 GS 1200 have a potential problem with this new e15 or is it new enough to not worry about rubber parts deteriorating?
    My 2016 manual shows a max of 10% ethanol.
    Lee
    2016 R1200RS
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes: 2011 K1300S, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    My 2016 manual shows a max of 10% ethanol.

    I'm sure mine says the same thing, so how does one prepare the bike for the inevitable down the road with e15 potential degradation of parts?
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    I'm sure mine says the same thing, so how does one prepare the bike for the inevitable down the road with e15 potential degradation of parts?
    Figure out who supports the ethanol scam and VOTE them out of office.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Figure out who supports the ethanol scam and VOTE them out of office.
    THROW them out?

    That would be more than half of Congress.....

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by soocom1 View Post
    THROW them out?

    That would be more than half of Congress.....
    That would be a good start.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Figure out who supports the ethanol scam and VOTE them out of office.
    As that's an unlikely outcome, any ideas on what may need to be attended to on the bike to ensure parts don't dissolve over time?
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

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