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Thread: more ethanol content

  1. #46
    SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    This latest political ploy is permission, not mandate.

    There is no particular incentive to replace E10 with E15.

    There is always lots of talk about how bad ethanol is, reduced energy content, etc., but most overlook the fact that in order for gasoline to have high octane--anti knock properties to go along with high compression--an additive to basic gasoline is required. Since tetraethyl lead and MTBE are now illegal, all that's left is ethanol. Low compression engines are basically irrelevant to anyone running German cars or motorcycles and therefore use of premium fuel is the driving force. You're going to need some ethanol.
    This does not seem to be accurate based on what is available in west central Montana. The only grade of fuel that is ethanol free here is the Premium grade.
    Kevin Huddy
    Tm Pterodactyl MT Outpost

  2. #47
    If anyone is a Babylon 5 fan you might remember the first season where Garibaldi put together a 1992 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-11 and Lennier winds up in the end putting a non- combustible fuel source into the bike.

    The concept is this: is there a fuel source that would make everyone happy that could be converted to any IC engine? This includes deisel?

    Or are we at the mercy of carbonized dinosaurs?

  3. #48
    Registered User GTRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    This latest political ploy is permission, not mandate.

    There is no particular incentive to replace E10 with E15.

    There is always lots of talk about how bad ethanol is, reduced energy content, etc., but most overlook the fact that in order for gasoline to have high octane--anti knock properties to go along with high compression--an additive to basic gasoline is required. Since tetraethyl lead and MTBE are now illegal, all that's left is ethanol. Low compression engines are basically irrelevant to anyone running German cars or motorcycles and therefore use of premium fuel is the driving force. You're going to need some ethanol.
    Actually, no. It’s only a question of high how up the cat cracker you want to tap off gasoline—the refineries can tap off any octane you’d like to have. It’s just a matter of the public being willing to pay for it. And even then, the refineries can add isobutane to increase the octane of a base level gasoline. Again, for a price.

    The concept of additives primarily for octane boosting has roots in the poor quality gasolines in the early part of the last century coupled with the availability of tetraethyl lead, a compound known even then to be highly toxic—but extremely profitable. Then came unleaded gasoline and the valve issues it introduced, followed closely by MTBE when places like Denver and urban areas of California and other states pressed for oxygenation in fuels to help reduce pollution. MTBE had its own problems (toxic, but not rated as carcinogenic) in part from being run through vehicles incapable of anything resembling high-efficiency combustion, but largely from being leaked into the ground via leaky gas station tanks. Governments and citizens alike went ape-s*** over the MTBE issue and in the search for an affordable and readily available oxygenator ethyl alcohol won out. Ecological impacts and market or production-planning costs and impacts weren’t adequately factored in and so you have today’s mess. Not surprising, given that both industry and government seem to have lost the ability to think or plan beyond the next quarterly statement.

    So anyway, we need octane—but the refineries could give us that. We need solutions for cleaner and higher-efficiency IC engines, and while that might include oxygenated fuels that should be only a stop-gap measure. There has to be a better way, something less destructive in both short and long terms. But, the current powers-that-be are essentially telling us to party like it’s 1999 when it comes to fuels, emissions, and transportation. And given world population trends, maybe they are right—enjoy it while it lasts. Gaia will have both the last word and the last laugh.

    IMHO, of course.

    Best,
    DG
    DGerber
    1983 R80ST — 1984 R80 G/S PD — 1993 R100GS — 2004 K1200GT w/Hannigan S/C — 2010 K1300GT
    BMWMOA#52184, AMA#271542, IBA#138

  4. #49
    Addicted to curves azgman's Avatar
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    Might as well just go electric... and let the producers worry about the fuel source?
    MOA #107139
    RA #28511

  5. #50
    Registered User Guenther's Avatar
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    A town with NO Ethanol in the pumps?

    A little bit off the current discussion:

    This summer I came through Hastings, NE. While I rolled into town I saw a bunch of factories for Ethanol - big ones. Ah, here is where the Ethanol comes from. I had to fill up gas, mid or high grade. The first three gas station only offered low grade Ethanol free gas and nothing else. Asked a local and he pointed me to one of two gas stations in town he knew which had high grade gas. Sure enough, high grade Ethanol free and low grade without Ethanol and nothing else.

    Leaving Hastings I thought about this. A town where obviously a lot of Ethanol is produced doesn't allow it in their own town's gas stations? If that would be true - WEIRD!

    /Guenther
    1989 R100GS, 2017 F700GS

  6. #51
    Registered User toooldtocare's Avatar
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    Back to the disadvantages of alcohol in gas, I'm partial to lawn equipment with Honda engines. I've got a Toro mower with a Honda engine, a Honda generator, Simpson pressure washer with a Honda engine, and a Honda string trimmer with a 4 stroke engine.

    All the owner's manuals say they will not warranty damage caused by alcohol in the gas, and if you must use gas with it, keep it to 10%. Since I normally get long service out of my equipment, I head the warnings carefully. My last Toro mower with a Suzuki two stroke engine was 25 years old and still running good when I retired it because I could no longer get parts for the mower deck.

    I do wish we could get alcohol free gas for older motorcycles and our lawn/farm equipment. As others have said, it does not make sense to me to raise grain, only to convert to alcohol to burn, when there seems to be an abundance of oil right now. Electrical vehicles are still away off, and the battery powered lawn equipment, although is getting better, still cannot handle some chores.

    Wayne

  7. #52
    Wayne--the pure-gas.org website shows lots of stations in your state (Florida) with ethanol free gasoline.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by swall View Post
    Wayne--the pure-gas.org website shows lots of stations in your state (Florida) with ethanol free gasoline.
    Like many things user generated or augmented this site is sometimes wrong: either due to misinformation or to a station changing what it sells. I find it useful but not ironclad so if it matters to you look carefully at the pump when you get there. Except in places like Kansas where the state in its typical wisdom removed the requirement that E10 had to be labeled. Some stations still do it because of corporate policy. Others gleefully took the tags off the pumps at their earliest opportunity. Transparency at its finest.

    It is all an agribusiness driven scam. Not the farmers really. Try Cargill, Monsanto (now Bayer, the aspirin folks) and Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) among others. Oh, and don't forget Senator Coal Dust (Kentucky) and Senator Corncob (Iowa) for their staunch support of ruining engines.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  9. #54
    Trust but verify--get a test kit and test the fuel from a station listed as having ethanol free gas.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Like many things user generated or augmented this site is sometimes wrong: either due to misinformation or to a station changing what it sells. I find it useful but not ironclad so if it matters to you look carefully at the pump when you get there. Except in places like Kansas where the state in its typical wisdom removed the requirement that E10 had to be labeled. Some stations still do it because of corporate policy. Others gleefully took the tags off the pumps at their earliest opportunity. Transparency at its finest.

    It is all an agribusiness driven scam. Not the farmers really. Try Cargill, Monsanto (now Bayer, the aspirin folks) and Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) among others. Oh, and don't forget Senator Coal Dust (Kentucky) and Senator Corncob (Iowa) for their staunch support of ruining engines.
    That's a pretty lucid post there sir.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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  11. #56
    Registered User toooldtocare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swall View Post
    Wayne--the pure-gas.org website shows lots of stations in your state (Florida) with ethanol free gasoline.
    Thanks. I had not seen that site before.

    Wayne

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