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R100S oil change

georgej

georgej

Member
I changed the oil on my 1977 R100S. I noticed all I have behind the oil filter cover is the white O-ring. No gasket, no shim.The parts fiche shows the gasket, the O-ring and the shim(the fiche calls it a washer).I've had the bike for a while now,3-4 years I've put a little over three thousand miles on her.Is it possible I only need the O-ring? My '78 R80/7 has the O-ring,and shim no gasket. I've been running the R80 that way for close to 10 years now, no issues. Any thoughts on this? I've read and reread all the threads on oil changes.
 
It all depends on the depth of the canister inside the oil filter housing. At a minimum, you need the white o-ring and thin shim or washer. The shim is needed to protect the o-ring from being cut. When installed you want some crush of the o-ring. If the canister is too deep, there will be minimal o-ring crush so you need one or more additional shims. If the canister is too shallow, the o-ring will be smashed too much, possibly splitting it. In that case, a gasket is used.

So, it all depends on the canister depth. Do get a shim for the R100S.
 
Anton has a page on this issue - http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/canister.html.

Basically, I feel that if your canister depth is say 3-3.5mm, then the o-ring and shim are all that's needed. More than about 3.5mm, extra shims are needed to account for the additional distance. If less than 3mm, then a gasket is needed to pull the cover out so not to severely crush the o-ring. On my /7, the canister is 2.8mm deep. I first started out with one gasket, now I'm up to two...I like the crush on the o-ring better.

Note there is no real oil pressure to worry about in this area. So the gasket is not really doing anything to help seal the oil inside, but rather is being used as a spacer.
 
I've been to that page many times. One thing I noticed when I took the cover off.The white O-ring was stuck on the canister. I noticed a groove on one side of it when I removed it. I'll have to order the washer/shim.
 
galaxie said:
put it back the way it came apart.if it has been that way for 3000 miles its fine
Click to expand...

This is one thing that an owner should think about. They don't call it the $2000 o-ring for nothing...probably more like $3000. If that o-ring gets cut, it compromises the oil filtration and can damage an engine. Kinda ruins your day!

I think knowledge is a good thing. I rode my /7 for many years and changed oil as well. I remember one of the first times and wondered with that white o-ring was all about. I didn't even change it...just put a new filter in and went on my way. I kept hearing reading what Snowbum and Tom Cutter was writing about...something about a canister...what the heck is that. Then I finally looked and went OMG! I don't believe there was a shim in there. Ever since then, I've been pretty meticulous about this and followed Oak's calculations to figure out what I needed. Anton's info is excellent as well.
 
I was thinking that myself. But I wanted to ask around the forum here for some advice. I'm not the best when it comes to mechanical stuff. That's what I like about this forum. It's a great resource of helpful knowledge.
 
On my R100S non-oil cooler, I use the 11421338600, 11421264160, 11421336895, which is the white "o" ring, the cover gasket and washer. I use the Mahle kit # OX37D it includes all that plus the crush washer for the pan. I've never measured the canister depth.
 
In the end, the white o-ring should come out looking squareish. If extremely flat or have cuts in it, or if it still has its round shape, then something is not right.
 
20774 said:
Let us know what the canister depth is. Would be good to see where you stand.
Click to expand...

I got the washer today. The battery is dead in my digital caliper. I'll wait to put it back together and put the oil in. How do I measure the canister depth? From the oil filter?
 
Anton has a picture near the bottom of this page showing how to measure the depth.

http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/

Click on the picture and you'll get a clearer idea of how to measure. The distance is from the outside flush part of the engine case to the edge of the canister which is just inside the block.
 
20774 said:
...The distance is from the outside flush part of the engine case to the edge of the canister which is just inside the block.
Click to expand...

Like so...

IMG_20150110_144131.jpg

A bit more indirect to do with the exhaust pipe in place, but doable. You could also push a piece of plumber's putty into the area and measure the impression with the calipers. The exhaust nuts should come off annually in order to refresh the anti-seize, so if that hasn't happened, it would be a good time to do that as well.
 
I measured the canister three times. Twice I got 2.99mm once 3.0mm. So to be safe I'm using the shim. I should have taken a picture of the o-ring that was in there. There was a cut or groove all the way around the side that was against the canister.
 
georgej said:
I measured the canister three times. Twice I got 2.99mm once 3.0mm. So to be safe I'm using the shim. I should have taken a picture of the o-ring that was in there. There was a cut or groove all the way around the side that was against the canister.
Click to expand...

That is why at least one shim is required on the older bikes. It has a sharp edge rather than a rolled edge. The shim protects the o-ring. After that, the compression has to be accommodated by some combination of shims and/or gaskets as has been discussed here and on Anton's site.
 
As Anton discusses and shows, the canister of later models had a rolled edge which theoretically indicates you wouldn't need the thin shim or protection. I'd probably still use the shim just to help spread the load to the o-ring.

3.0mm is a bit on the shallow side. The goal is to get the o-ring to be compressed say 25% or maybe a bit less. According to Anton's site the o-ring diameter is 4mm and the shim is 0.3mm thick. So, in your case, and without the shim, the 4mm o-ring has to fit into a 3mm space...that's 25% compression. Adding the shim, you're putting the 4mm o-ring into a 2.7mm space...that's over 30% compression. The gasket is 0.45mm thick. If the gasket was also used, the net difference between the 0.3mm shim and the 0.45mm gasket is to ADD 0.15mm to the space. Now the space would be 3.15mm to fit the 4mm o-ring...compression is around 22%.

So, with a depth of 3mm, use of the gasket might actually be better. :hungover
 
So , If you screwed this up badly would the low oil pressure light come on? With the light off can you still risk toasting your engine?
 
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