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Oil, not just another thread

Wethead said:
The other issue that came up with this tech was that 'most so called 'synthetic' oils are not really fully synthetic, while this Motul 4T 7100 is completely, 100% synthetic. In fact, that 5-40 expensive BMW oil may be one of them not completely synthetic.
Click to expand...

BMW 5W-40 is grade "ultimate" which means fully synthetic.

BMW 15W-50 is grade "pro" which means semisynthetic.
 
Funny how the strongly recommended BMW Advantec 5w40 has no mention anywhere on its bottle about it being synthetic or anything else for that matter!:scratch
:ca
 
I have swapped between BMW and Motul oils, both the same grades btw, and found the transmission to be smoother shifting with Motul.
Motul is an Ester base synthetic and I have no idea either about the Shell based BMW oil.
FWIW, I change the oil in my bike every 4K as shifting performance with either oil seems to slack off after that. YMMV
 
Omega Man said:
It’s been suggested that the “0” and close to “0” weight oils are part of trying to satisfy EPA/government mileage mandates. I have messed with using “out of spec (weight)” oils with results I have been happy with. From using a 0-40 to straight 40 to free up parts or slow oil consumption. I’m pretty sure the manufacturer recommended oil weights are the best overall as they don’t know where an engine will end up or the engines service duty.
The new oils are pretty flexible, I don’t think you can hurt anything....give it a shot. Let us know how you make out.
OM
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Of course the "0" is the first number and is therefore irrelevant to oil performance at operating temperature. This is just the behavior at cold starting.

The 0W-20, 5W-16, 5W-30 are the fuel economy oils.

For my diesel, 5W-40 is no longer available, replaced by new fuel economy formulation 5W-30 and whole new diesel category.

There's really no reason for a 50W oil in a water cooled engine and it in fact could increase heat due to the extra friction it creates.

Noise problem is not an oil problem, assuming reasonably new, fresh oil.
 
Just use Olive Oil. Its supposed to be good for your heart, and lets face it, the engine is the heart of the bike, right?

Now the question is: Extra Virgin, Virgin, Refined, etc... ?
 
akbeemer said:
Does anyone have first hand knowledge of a warranty claim being denied because of the use of an oil of a viscosity other than what is specified? If so, then how did the dealer know it was an unapproved viscosity?
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I've seen companies deny warranty because brake fluid was not the stock COLOR. That's so easy. Avoid ATE Super Blue.

I've never heard of viscosity being a reason for denial of a warranty. I do know that the new BMW car engines use really thin synthetic oil also. They have no break in procedure either. Just drive.

Wet head is not the same animal as the older boxers. Some posters above are using old bikes to justify thicker oils. If this engine is built like Porsche builds it's new engines, the oil passages are smaller and clearances are tighter. Thick oil is not better.

Going back to older bikes, my '05 would clatter with Mobil 1 15-50 but not with BMW or Spectro 15-50. I don't know the difference in these oils, but I could hear a difference.

I would be careful going drastically thicker. This is not your father's Beemer. Agree something different in 100 degree heat is likely appropriate, but what happens when you stay overnight up in those mountains and it's 45 degrees in the morning? The old bikes didn't have water cooling and the pieces expanded and contracted a bit more. Now, engine temps are more stable and clearances are less....yes, they use thin oil for economy but the motors are build differently too.

Make sure the water is deep enough before you dive in?
 
lkchris said:
If that mechanic had a degree in chemistry or petroleum engineering or mechanical engineering, he'd have a better job. Otherwise, he's not an oil expert.
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Does one have to be an oil expert to know what works best in the 110-115 degree heat here in the desert having worked on Beemers for a decade or more and having been trained as a bmw mechanic working for a dealership even longer?

Or does one just have to have enough experience over many years to know what he's talking about?

BMW engineers who design the bikes and recommend what should be used do NOT see those temps daily in Germany. They would then be more ignorant about how the engine performs in such heat, never having seen those temps nor working on bikes that run in those temps a few months a year would they?

Just to clarify what they see there:
The average monthly January daytime temperature is 3 degrees Celsius (38 degrees Fahrenheit) and in July it's 22 degrees Celsius (72 degrees Fahrenheit). Extremes temperatures sometimes reach -10° C (5°F) in winter and 35 ° C (95° F) in the summer months.

Their extreme is 95 degrees. Todays normal temp here was 112, yesterday 115 [ 20 degrees warmer than they extreme temps ] and we'll see 118-120 for a few weeks here every year.. That's works out to 21% more heat average and up to 26% hotter in the extreme comparison.

On the other end, we don't see below 40 degrees and they can see 5F. A difference of 12%. Not as much difference in colder comparisons, but it's the heat that kills engines, not cold.

My mechanic knows these heat issues here, the BMW talking heads do not, and it's very unlikely they even consider that in their recommendations.

My manual states "generally recommended, among other grades is SAE 10W-~50, API SF / ACEA A2, or better ~-20 °C. What's the difference between 20-50 and 10-50 with a heat index 21-26% hotter might be a question for them engineers in Germany huh? Maybe YOU can answer the question, if you're an oil engineer.

There's really no reason for a 50W oil in a water cooled engine and it in fact could increase heat due to the extra friction it creates.

I don't run a water cooled engine on the bike. What say you on the oil/air cooled camheads assuming you have some experience in those motors in such heat having serviced them like my mechanic has for roughly the same time frame?

As an aside, there's a camhead owner on another site that's got 200K+ on his and he's never run anything but 20-50 after the bike hit 6K miles. He doesn't seem all that concerned about running 20-50 whatsoever, similar to my mechanic.
 
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lkchris said:
If that mechanic had a degree in chemistry or petroleum engineering or mechanical engineering, he'd have a better job. Otherwise, he's not an oil expert.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is a fair comment. I can tell you right now I know folks who are much more savvy about BMW motorcycles mechanics than any engineer.

Give you an example: I know a dude who actually de-coded the computer program in a GT and reconfigured it to display information that he deemed riders would be more interested in seeing constantly. He created a new panel for the GT. But he then disappeared. I think he might have gotten in trouble with the legality of it all. Last I heard, he actually works with a well know aftermarket part designer.

I know this other dude who ride an RT, he is an AMP licensed person for an airline, you be sucking your words through your nose if you could talk BMW engines with him.

There are a bunch of guys who are riders and were employed by BMW as career mechs.

No sir, I be willing to bet that many of those 'engineers' people worship around here have never ridden a bike in their lives--you can tell by the way they design them sheetie-arses seats every year!!
 
rtwiz said:
I've seen companies deny warranty because brake fluid was not the stock COLOR.
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I like to remind consumers that warranty denial such as this is BS-

If you own a car, you know how important it is to keep up with routine maintenance and repairs. But can a dealer refuse to honor the warranty that came with your new car if someone else does the routine maintenance or repairs?

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consumer protection agency, says no. In fact, it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else. Routine maintenance often includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, fluid checks and flushes, new brake pads, and inspections. Maintenance schedules vary by vehicle make, model and year; the best source of information about routine scheduled maintenance is your owner's manual.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Try not to let unscrupulous dealer/repair locations or suppliers give you a hosing.......unless your into that sort of thing. :deal

OM
 
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