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Thread: Sad story about a young traveler.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    ...Fund her if you so wish, but judging her decision-making 'logic' doesn't make you a bad person. It's a thought-process that forms the basis for common sense.
    Greenwald made a number of good points in his post. But one that had been running through my mind was the phrase, "Common sense is not common."

    I have gone on a number of international mission trips in the past few years. i try to use situational awareness and common sense. I've learned that not everyone does, including those you think would. I was going through an area in Dar es Salaam with a friend. We're walking through an area with a lot of businesses in what you might think of as single car garages. I'm watching as two men in their 20s get into a fight and I'm looking for ways to avoid the fight. A local Imam broke the fight up before we got close and everyone but 3 very tall young men went off to the local mosque. The area is deserted now, except for those three men. We walked on by while the three men are watching us. I mention to my friend that perhaps we should go over to the main road on the way back. "Why?", he asks. He's totally oblivious to what has just happened. We're in a deserted area with young men who stand probably at least a foot taller than us, and are much younger. The US State Department has warnings about kidnappings in the city and about how you don't even take taxis, except under certain situations. In fact, the US government doesn't even let their people travel from city to city on the roads. They fly and aren't allowed to travel at night. We're vulnerable and in a potentially hazardous situation, and he doesn't see it at all. Common sense, is not common.

    Chris
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    Bingo!!!!!! You can sit home or get out there and experience the world.
    There is a lot of the world you can experience without putting yourself in much danger. There is a big grey area between experiencing the world and sitting at home.

    I live in the USA and travel as much as time allows. There are areas of the USA I avoid. You don't need to throw yourself into dangerous areas to experience the world. There are areas that it might be best to not see. Also avoid areas at different times of day. I might travel through some rough neighborhoods during the day, but I sure will not go there at night.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by daboo View Post
    Greenwald made a number of good points in his post. But one that had been running through my mind was the phrase, "Common sense is not common."

    I have gone on a number of international mission trips in the past few years. i try to use situational awareness and common sense. I've learned that not everyone does, including those you think would. I was going through an area in Dar es Salaam with a friend. We're walking through an area with a lot of businesses in what you might think of as single car garages. I'm watching as two men in their 20s get into a fight and I'm looking for ways to avoid the fight. A local Imam broke the fight up before we got close and everyone but 3 very tall young men went off to the local mosque. The area is deserted now, except for those three men. We walked on by while the three men are watching us. I mention to my friend that perhaps we should go over to the main road on the way back. "Why?", he asks. He's totally oblivious to what has just happened. We're in a deserted area with young men who stand probably at least a foot taller than us, and are much younger. The US State Department has warnings about kidnappings in the city and about how you don't even take taxis, except under certain situations. In fact, the US government doesn't even let their people travel from city to city on the roads. They fly and aren't allowed to travel at night. We're vulnerable and in a potentially hazardous situation, and he doesn't see it at all. Common sense, is not common.

    Chris

    Amen to all these comments, and a narrative to emphasis a point.

    While "Common sense is not common" proves to be a time-honored cliché, it is also the definitive dividing line that separates 'cautious from careless.'

    This young lady was careless, and paid way too high a price for her trust in humanity. I hope she recovers both physically and emotionally, and that her expenses dissipate.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    There is a lot of the world you can experience without putting yourself in much danger. There is a big grey area between experiencing the world and sitting at home.

    I live in the USA and travel as much as time allows. There are areas of the USA I avoid. You don't need to throw yourself into dangerous areas to experience the world. There are areas that it might be best to not see. Also avoid areas at different times of day. I might travel through some rough neighborhoods during the day, but I sure will not go there at night.
    So true. 3+ decades in law enforcement taught me to be more pragmatic about what life has to offer, and not to wander this globe foolishly.

    So much to see and do here in the USA and Canada - no desire on my part to venture much further, and yet for those who do, let caution be your guide.

  5. #20
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    I'm just hearing the oft quoted passage about Judge ye not... just sayin'

    Situational awareness is not a gender specific need. It is sad to read about the womans ordeal during her quest for adventure. She is not the only woman to ever travel alone, in less than Maple Avenue settings,or in foreign to us lands.

    Glenn Heggstad comes to mind, what a story he tells about being kidnapped on one of his many adventures.I never questioned his sanity, admired his mindset and fortitude though.

    Anyways, I don't judge others quests and adventures...some not for me at 61, though looking back, given the opportunity I would have given many of them a shot.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    I'm just hearing the oft quoted passage about Judge ye not... just sayin' ...
    That's the one verse that many atheists remember from the Bible. I'm not saying that's why you know it, just that it is.

    The context does not leave out making an evaluation or an assessment. In Matthew 7:15-16, Jesus is clearly indicating that some assessment has to be made when He says "You will know them by their fruits." In other words, by their actions and the results of those actions.
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  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    I'm just hearing the oft quoted passage about Judge ye not... just sayin'

    Situational awareness is not a gender specific need. It is sad to read about the womans ordeal during her quest for adventure. She is not the only woman to ever travel alone, in less than Maple Avenue settings,or in foreign to us lands.

    Glenn Heggstad comes to mind, what a story he tells about being kidnapped on one of his many adventures.I never questioned his sanity, admired his mindset and fortitude though.

    Anyways, I don't judge others quests and adventures...some not for me at 61, though looking back, given the opportunity I would have given many of them a shot.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    There is a lot of the world you can experience without putting yourself in much danger. There is a big grey area between experiencing the world and sitting at home.

    I live in the USA and travel as much as time allows. There are areas of the USA I avoid. You don't need to throw yourself into dangerous areas to experience the world. There are areas that it might be best to not see. Also avoid areas at different times of day. I might travel through some rough neighborhoods during the day, but I sure will not go there at night.
    Beg to differ. The world holds many dangers and if you explore this world, you'll be moving through many of them. Even as you may not be fully aware of the danger/risks to traveling.

    From being pick pocketed on the streets of Paris, to being abducted right here on the streets of the US of A, there's risk and dangers aplenty once you leave the comfort of your own dwelling.

    Just last week, a 19 yr old girl had an attempt to abduct her by a couple while she was coming out of the library. This in a community that's known to be safer than the surrounding cities/towns. So, walk out of your house, dangers exist. They exist 1 mile from your house and exist 10K miles from your house.

    Ones perception of risk/reward usually isn't part of the decision process when doing a rtw tour. However, even knowing the risks, there's this.

    The sweet smell of success, of accomplishing something very few [ relatively speaking ] would dare to attempt, let alone finish. Life is full of risks. Really living life isn't for the feint of heart.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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  9. #24
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daboo View Post
    .
    Thanks for the lesson...let's not travel down that path here please my brother

    My point was who are we to pass any judgement on others choices,dreams,passions. If you want to make a difference and donate for her fine, if not, let her live her life and choices.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    Beg to differ. The world holds many dangers and if you explore this world, you'll be moving through many of them. Even as you may not be fully aware of the danger/risks to traveling.
    So you are trying to tell me you are as likely to get assaulted in the south side of Chicago as any home town library?

    I will agree there is danger every where, but the odds of something happening change drastically with the location.

    You can get assaulted in your own home, but it doesn't mean your home is as dangerous as Chicago's south side at midnight Saturday.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PoorUB View Post
    So you are trying to tell me you are as likely to get assaulted in the south side of Chicago as any home town library?

    I will agree there is danger every where, but the odds of something happening change drastically with the location.

    You can get assaulted in your own home, but it doesn't mean your home is as dangerous as Chicago's south side at midnight Saturday.
    Risk/reward. I've not alluded to more or less risk. You can't experience Delhi India without risks involved anymore than you can Chicago's south side. One can't travel the world anywhere without an element of risk, and that includes the good old US of A. In any town USA at that.

    Life isn't for the feint of heart. Adventurers have always accepted inherent risks of traveling to unknowns. If you don't want to experience risk or life to the fullest, sit on the couch and watch the Simpsons.

    Riding a motorcycle is a risk in and of itself. People choose to ride knowing the risks. What we don't normally see is people telling others who were involved in a crash they should have stayed off motorcycles and surrounded themselves in cages however.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    Thanks for the lesson...let's not travel down that path here please my brother

    My point was who are we to pass any judgement on others choices,dreams,passions. If you want to make a difference and donate for her fine, if not, let her live her life and choices.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie0486 View Post
    Risk/reward. I've not alluded to more or less risk. You can't experience Delhi India without risks involved anymore than you can Chicago's south side. One can't travel the world anywhere without an element of risk, and that includes the good old US of A. In any town USA at that.

    Life isn't for the feint of heart. Adventurers have always accepted inherent risks of traveling to unknowns. If you don't want to experience risk or life to the fullest, sit on the couch and watch the Simpsons.

    Riding a motorcycle is a risk in and of itself. People choose to ride knowing the risks. What we don't normally see is people telling others who were involved in a crash they should have stayed off motorcycles and surrounded themselves in cages however.
    "Risk/reward." One of the things you do as a project manager, is to study the risks associated with your project. There's a whole discipline called "risk management" devoted to it, because of its importance. You identify the risks and then quantify the probability of it occurring and what the costs will be. It gives you a way to prioritize, find solutions to your risks and at least mitigate those risks. It's just as applicable to construction projects, building airplanes, riding motorcycles or taking international trips. To ignore the risks and not plan for them, is to encourage failure.

    I'll bet each person reading this, practices risk management in their motorcycle riding. We wear helmets, and wear riding gear to protect ourselves in the event that risk (of falling) becomes a reality. We ride at a speed on the roads that is dictated in our minds by an evaluation of the risk involved in riding faster, whether it is because of the risk of a ticket or the risk of an accident. Chances are that when we see someone weaving in and out of traffic on a sport bike with flip-flops, and just a t-shirt and shorts for clothing, we make a judgment in our minds. You could easily make an argument that that "zoom-splat" is living life to the fullest, ...and you riding as you normally do, are not. You might even think in the back of your mind that if they keep riding like that, they won't pass on their DNA and might become an organ donor.

    And if you don't think that, and you refuse to admit that you make that judgment...then follow their example the next time you ride. I'll bet you won't. You practice risk management, even if you never thought of it that way before. You can still enjoy the adventure each of us finds in riding down the road, and not be stuck on a couch the rest of your life.


    Here's an example from my personal life that I think might help. For seven years, I went in the local county jail to share the Bible with men. I loved it and enjoyed the interaction with the men. Most of the men I saw were in for minor drug charges, DUI or domestic violence. Towards the end, they moved me to a different cell block. These men were openly planning their next big drug deals for when they got out. It was a group of hardened and violent men. I realized that if we weren't in the jail with the safeguards I had in there, the situation would be dramatically different. If I was in their neighborhoods on the outside — I would be prey and they would be the predators. There's no way I'd walk alone in their neighborhoods without doing something to mitigate the risk. I'd end up dead or close to it in a very short time.

    Whether seeing these men in the jail, or walking down their streets, I would be living life far more than watching the Simpsons (which I don't). But one would be totally foolhardy.

    Chris
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  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by daboo View Post
    "Risk/reward." One of the things you do as a project manager, is to study the risks associated with your project. There's a whole discipline called "risk management" devoted to it, because of its importance. You identify the risks and then quantify the probability of it occurring and what the costs will be. It gives you a way to prioritize, find solutions to your risks and at least mitigate those risks. It's just as applicable to construction projects, building airplanes, riding motorcycles or taking international trips. To ignore the risks and not plan for them, is to encourage failure.

    I'll bet each person reading this, practices risk management in their motorcycle riding. We wear helmets, and wear riding gear to protect ourselves in the event that risk (of falling) becomes a reality. We ride at a speed on the roads that is dictated in our minds by an evaluation of the risk involved in riding faster, whether it is because of the risk of a ticket or the risk of an accident. Chances are that when we see someone weaving in and out of traffic on a sport bike with flip-flops, and just a t-shirt and shorts for clothing, we make a judgment in our minds. You could easily make an argument that that "zoom-splat" is living life to the fullest, ...and you riding as you normally do, are not. You might even think in the back of your mind that if they keep riding like that, they won't pass on their DNA and might become an organ donor.

    And if you don't think that, and you refuse to admit that you make that judgment...then follow their example the next time you ride. I'll bet you won't. You practice risk management, even if you never thought of it that way before. You can still enjoy the adventure each of us finds in riding down the road, and not be stuck on a couch the rest of your life.


    Here's an example from my personal life that I think might help. For seven years, I went in the local county jail to share the Bible with men. I loved it and enjoyed the interaction with the men. Most of the men I saw were in for minor drug charges, DUI or domestic violence. Towards the end, they moved me to a different cell block. These men were openly planning their next big drug deals for when they got out. It was a group of hardened and violent men. I realized that if we weren't in the jail with the safeguards I had in there, the situation would be dramatically different. If I was in their neighborhoods on the outside — I would be prey and they would be the predators. There's no way I'd walk alone in their neighborhoods without doing something to mitigate the risk. I'd end up dead or close to it in a very short time.

    Whether seeing these men in the jail, or walking down their streets, I would be living life far more than watching the Simpsons (which I don't). But one would be totally foolhardy.

    Chris
    As I mentioned, I used to hunt humans for a living. The jungle is where I hunted them, the concrete jungles of inner city projects In Boston and Prov, RI, streets in the inner city sanctums of minority communities where the majority of housing was section 8 [ for just shy of 30 years ]. Been in areas of sections of Boston in the 90's that white leo's wouldn't go into to, nor were assigned to those areas due to the "risks" involved based on skin color alone. Me being a white male in THEIR hood only meant more inherent risks were present than if I stayed in a town like Milton just outside the city. However, solving major crimes was the goal, hunting the criminals committing those crimes the risk.

    I also was employed to hunt BG's OCONUS involved in drug running, production, and kidnapping of Americans in central and S America. Plenty of risks involved, even on a small team. But the rewards were commensurate with the risks. Thus the risk/reward analysis every person must make when they adventure out into this very dangerous world.

    Most people walk around in the white [ research Coopers color codes for further clarification ]. Oblivious to potential dangers and just go about their day unaware of what hazards life may bring, let alone prepared to deal with or solve. No matter what area one may be moving through, there's associated risks and many are unforeseen. Luck of the draw in a manner of speaking.

    5K people could move through that same area on bikes and never be involved as a victim of some crime, but the one who is unlucky and is the victim of a crime in that same area shouldn't be singled out for their decisions to adventure forth as being foolhardy either. You go on a cruise, there's risk of becoming sick from the food on ship or while onshore, there's risk the ship will sink, that you fall overboard, yet people take cruises and aren't admonished for becoming a victim on shore visiting some stop the ship makes.

    The wife used to fly international for twa. Dumped in cities like Cairo, Athens, Paris, etc for days at a time on lay overs. She'd take a Nile cruise at midnight along the pyramids, walk the streets of Cairo visiting the bazaars and shops, all by herself. Major risks for a young woman to be doing on her own, but she's someone who likes adventures, and made those stops just that, instead of safely sitting in her hotel room. She almost got blown up in Paris just walking back from dinner one night with 2 other flight attendants when a bomb went off at a shop they had just walked past and were just 3-4 store fronts away from when it went off injuring people on the sidewalk.

    Risks everywhere in life, whether they are realized and acknowledged or not. People drive cars every day, there are 1.3 million people who die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled. Driving is more dangerous and has more risk than that girl riding her bike through s, central america held.

    Perception and what risks one is willing to take face anyone who is an adventurer. Even venturing out to the stop and rob for milk in ones car.
    Last edited by brownie0486; 09-26-2018 at 06:36 PM.
    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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  15. #30
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    This is the group that Booman and McGregor used for their “Long Way Round” trip.

    https://www.objectivetravelsafety.co...venture-travel

    Highly advisable training for anyone traveling in someone else’s “jungle”.

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