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Thread: Brake failure warning light, 2003 k1200gt

  1. #1
    Grandpa Jim
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    Brake failure warning light, 2003 k1200gt

    I just had my spring service and rode home from the Barrington, IL shop about 55 miles to my home, no problems. This was 2 weeks ago. I start to pull away tonight and the brake failure warning light would not go out even after the "pull away" procedure. Dealer flushed and refilled brake fluid and didn't find any issues. I did take a very short ride in my Chicago neighborhood tonight, and it seemed like the brakes were OK, but the failure light kept flashing. Very disturbing. Any thoughts? It's hard to imagine the dealer might have missed a serious fault in the braking system, and again, brakes were fine when I road home.

    Thanks, Grandpa Jim, Chicago

  2. #2
    Supporting our Vets jers99lt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chessare5 View Post
    I just had my spring service and rode home from the Barrington, IL shop about 55 miles to my home, no problems. This was 2 weeks ago. I start to pull away tonight and the brake failure warning light would not go out even after the "pull away" procedure. Dealer flushed and refilled brake fluid and didn't find any issues. I did take a very short ride in my Chicago neighborhood tonight, and it seemed like the brakes were OK, but the failure light kept flashing. Very disturbing. Any thoughts? It's hard to imagine the dealer might have missed a serious fault in the braking system, and again, brakes were fine when I road home.

    Thanks, Grandpa Jim, Chicago
    Dealer let you go with flashing brake failure warning light activated or they saw it just the once for flush/refill? If once, take it back since they were last in the area of failure.

    Have fun,
    Jer
    Jerry Palma
    99 K1200LTI Champagne 'Oh, Kay' (dropped: 6); 85 R80RT 'Lady in Red'; 08 535xi Space Gray metallic; 09 328i Silver Convertable; 17 X3 Arctic Silver metallic
    I love these bikes regardless of what I've needed to fix on them. I'll: Just Ride 'em!

  3. #3
    Grandpa Jim
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    Jer,

    The light was not on when I left Barrington. Everything seemed AOK. Thanks...

  4. #4
    Registered User AntonLargiader's Avatar
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    Fast or slow blinking?

    Make sure you don't have a stuck brake switch (you should hear them both click when you start to move the levers) and after that I'd let the dealer scan it. If the lights don't change when you ride off (General warning is off, ABS flashes once per second) it means the self-test isn't complete. I THINK: the self-test looks for the presence of the sensors and switches, and the proper boot-up of the ABS electronics and then goes from fast to slow blinking. Once you start moving it looks for actual wheel speed from both wheels, and then it is complete and the lights stops blinking. But I'm not sure exactly what is checked in the fast and slow blinking stages.

    If you aren't sure about what you're seeing, the ABS fault table is:

    Gen OFF, ABS ON = Only residual braking in both circuits.
    Gen OFF, ABS flashes at 1Hz = ABS not available. Pull-away test not completed.
    Gen OFF, ABS flashes at 4Hz = Only residual braking function available in both circuits. Self-diagnosis not completed.
    Gen ON, ABS off = Tail light/brake light defective.
    Gen ON, ABS flashes at 1 Hz = At least one brake circuit without ABS.
    Gen ON, ABS flashes at 4Hz =At least one brake circuit in residual braking function mode.
    Gen AND ABS flashing alternately at 1Hz = Fluid level in Integral ABS too low.

    On a USA bike, 'Gen' refers to the General Warning light and 'ABS' refers to the Brake Failure light.
    Anton Largiader 72724
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  5. #5
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Q: On these, is the brake light current monitored? If so, you may have a dead (or even just dying) tail or brake bulb or socket.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    Q: On these, is the brake light current monitored? If so, you may have a dead (or even just dying) tail or brake bulb or socket.
    On these K1200GT with longitudinal "brick" engine the rear bulb is being monitored / controlled by the ABS modulator (tail and brake light filament in same bulb).

    HOWEVER, when / if you have a bulb failure (tail or brake circuit), it will show as a STEADY General-Warning only (the red triangle symbol). Because he said he is seeing a flashing warning, this falls into another type of defect / warnings.

    To further troubleshoot, the OP (Chessare5) needs to be more specific about which of the warnings he is seeing (either ABS or General-Warning triangle symbol)
    ...AND ALSO... at what speed do they flash (slow is 1 time per sec - fast is 4 times per sec).
    JEAN
    Montreal (CANADA)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Current: K1200RS (2002) with 95,000 miles (154,000 KM)

  7. #7
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Thank you, Jean!

    Paul S

  8. #8
    Grandpa Jim
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    Brake failure warning light, 2003 k1200gt Your Message

    Quote Originally Posted by myK1200rs View Post
    On these K1200GT with longitudinal "brick" engine the rear bulb is being monitored / controlled by the ABS modulator (tail and brake light filament in same bulb).

    HOWEVER, when / if you have a bulb failure (tail or brake circuit), it will show as a STEADY General-Warning only (the red triangle symbol). Because he said he is seeing a flashing warning, this falls into another type of defect / warnings.

    To further troubleshoot, the OP (Chessare5) needs to be more specific about which of the warnings he is seeing (either ABS or General-Warning triangle symbol)
    ...AND ALSO... at what speed do they flash (slow is 1 time per sec - fast is 4 times per sec).
    Thanks to all...
    Both the ABS and Gen lights are flashing slowly. Braking seems OK but I'm still hesitant to trust that it's something minor, if there is such a thing with ABS brakes. Brake light seems also to be fully functional. Grandpa Jim

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chessare5 View Post
    Thanks to all...
    Both the ABS and Gen lights are flashing slowly. Braking seems OK but I'm still hesitant to trust that it's something minor, if there is such a thing with ABS brakes. Brake light seems also to be fully functional. Grandpa Jim
    As posted in list from AntonLargiader earlier (same thread),
    the slow flashing (1 time per sec) of both warnings in alternate fashion, means: low fluid level in either sections of the 2 sections brake fluid reservoir.

    For K1200RS and K1200GT with servos iABS, this reservoir is located on right side just under seat (above right footpeg roughly). There 2 black plastic caps with attached vent hoses. Each reservoir section has MIN and MAX marks.

    Section toward inside frame is for FRONT brakes and outmost section is for REAR (see atatched photos...). DOT4 brake fluid only.

    BE CAREFUL about not moving or pulling on the connectors on top of reservoir as these 2 sensors are measuring for low fluid level. If either is damaged or disconnected, you get the same error flashing warning as "low fluid".


    K1200RS_IABS_fluid_check_reservoir(Lee).jpgK1200RS_IABS_rear_fluid_reservoir_TOP (with arrows).JPG
    JEAN
    Montreal (CANADA)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Current: K1200RS (2002) with 95,000 miles (154,000 KM)

  10. #10
    Grandpa Jim
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    Brake failure warning light, 2003 k1200gt

    [QUOTE=myK1200rs;1130273]As posted in list from AntonLargiader earlier (same thread),
    the slow flashing (1 time per sec) of both warnings in alternate fashion, means: low fluid level in either sections of the 2 sections brake fluid reservoir.

    For K1200RS and K1200GT with servos iABS, this reservoir is located on right side just under seat (above right footpeg roughly). There 2 black plastic caps with attached vent hoses. Each reservoir section has MIN and MAX marks.

    Section toward inside frame is for FRONT brakes and outmost section is for REAR (see atatched photos...). DOT4 brake fluid only.

    BE CAREFUL about not moving or pulling on the connectors on top of reservoir as these 2 sensors are measuring for low fluid level. If either is damaged or disconnected, you get the same error flashing warning as "low fluid".


    Jean and Anton,
    Thank you very much for your help! I exposed the brake fluid reservoirs, and sure enough, the rear one was below MIN, and the front was actually above MAX. I took a medicine dropper and simply removed the excess fluid from the front and put it in the rear. I took a short ride through the neighborhood, and everything functioned perfectly fine. No angry lights. As you can imagine, I had visions of a $2000 ABS pump replacement, so this no cost solution, thanks again, is a great relief. I'll give it a more thorough test Monday, but I'm inclined to think problem solved.

    Ride safe! Grandpa Jim, Chicago

  11. #11
    3 Red Bricks
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    Quote Originally Posted by chessare5 View Post
    I just had my spring service and rode home from the Barrington, IL shop about 55 miles to my home, no problems. This was 2 weeks ago. I start to pull away tonight and the brake failure warning light would not go out even after the "pull away" procedure. Dealer flushed and refilled brake fluid and didn't find any issues. I did take a very short ride in my Chicago neighborhood tonight, and it seemed like the brakes were OK, but the failure light kept flashing. Very disturbing. Any thoughts? It's hard to imagine the dealer might have missed a serious fault in the braking system, and again, brakes were fine when I road home.

    Thanks, Grandpa Jim, Chicago

    Sounds like you are owed a healthy adjustment on your bill for your spring service.





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  12. #12
    Knight-Errant 1957mpd's Avatar
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    Brilliant!

    Anton and Jean: Indeed, hat doffed to you both. It was fun just watching and learning from this rapid-fire exchange. And thanks to Grandpa Jim of Chicago for providing the occasion.

    Mark
    "Soló el que ensaya lo absurdo es capaz de conquistar lo imposible." Miguel de Unamuno 1905

    Mark - Las Cruces, NM - '10 K1300S and '17 R1200 GSA

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chessare5 View Post

    Jean and Anton,
    Thank you very much for your help! I exposed the brake fluid reservoirs, and sure enough, the rear one was below MIN, and the front was actually above MAX. I took a medicine dropper and simply removed the excess fluid from the front and put it in the rear. I took a short ride through the neighborhood, and everything functioned perfectly fine. No angry lights. As you can imagine, I had visions of a $2000 ABS pump replacement, so this no cost solution, thanks again, is a great relief. I'll give it a more thorough test Monday, but I'm inclined to think problem solved.

    Ride safe! Grandpa Jim, Chicago
    JIM,
    In general, on these iABS with servos system, when the fluid level is near MIN, you can expect the brake pads of the applicable section to be worn: in your case, I would check for rear brake pads thickness VERY SOON...

    Assuming no leaks and no other loss (as it should), on iABS with servos, the fluid level goes down in this 2 sections reservoir in direct proportion to brake pads wear. The fluid level in the handlebar master-cylinder does not change with front pads wear.

    OTHER IMPORTANT MAINTENANCE:
    If you want to reduce possibilities of a costly ABS pump replacement, you should plan to bleed the system every year (partial bleed - wheel circuits) AND ALSO full bleed (control + wheel circuits) every 2 years.

    Although BMW has published a Service-Bulletin that this strict maintenance schedule can be relaxed to every 4 years for the full bleed (instead of every 2 years). there is enough "anecdotal" data from many hundreds of users that these servos ABS modulators will last longer if maintenance is strict.

    Above applies to iABS servos modulator as installed on most Boxers and K-brick-engine between 2002-2006 for USA market. Most other countries got these new iABS servos beginning in 2001.
    JEAN
    Montreal (CANADA)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Current: K1200RS (2002) with 95,000 miles (154,000 KM)

  14. #14
    Grandpa Jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by myK1200rs View Post
    JIM,
    In general, on these iABS with servos system, when the fluid level is near MIN, you can expect the brake pads of the applicable section to be worn: in your case, I would check for rear brake pads thickness VERY SOON...

    Assuming no leaks and no other loss (as it should), on iABS with servos, the fluid level goes down in this 2 sections reservoir in direct proportion to brake pads wear. The fluid level in the handlebar master-cylinder does not change with front pads wear.

    OTHER IMPORTANT MAINTENANCE:
    If you want to reduce possibilities of a costly ABS pump replacement, you should plan to bleed the system every year (partial bleed - wheel circuits) AND ALSO full bleed (control + wheel circuits) every 2 years.

    Although BMW has published a Service-Bulletin that this strict maintenance schedule can be relaxed to every 4 years for the full bleed (instead of every 2 years). there is enough "anecdotal" data from many hundreds of users that these servos ABS modulators will last longer if maintenance is strict.

    Above applies to iABS servos modulator as installed on most Boxers and K-brick-engine between 2002-2006 for USA market. Most other countries got these new iABS servos beginning in 2001.
    Jean, They did replace the rear pads, and because they installed a new rear tire, they didn't charge me any labor for that bit of maintenance. Nice. And yes, I do adhere to the two-year interval of brake fluid exchange. Thanks again, GJ

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