Rear tire crown flattening

akbeemer said:

Comparing tire performance and wear patterns on an F bike to that of a tire on a K or R bike will reveal little useful data.

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I realize that an F bike is not a "real" BMW. But let me spell it out for you.

• Tire wore in the center only. See above post to note how tires on K bikes wear in the center also. Amazing! I never would've thought a F bike would wear tires in the same area as a K or R bike.
• Tire did not wear on the sides. It looked like it was still new. Do K and R bikes do that?
• Past performance of even the same manufacturer's tires, does not indicate what new tires will do.
• And it can even be half the tire life you expected from the same brand tire. On a new and "improved" tire.

• A freebee...if you buy a tire with no tread crossing the center...you'll never know how close you're getting to the cords.

And you wonder why people are dropping BMW MOA???

Chris

daboo said:

I realize that an F bike is not a "real" BMW. But let me spell it out for you.

• Tire wore in the center only. See above post to note how tires on K bikes wear in the center also. Amazing! I never would've thought a F bike would wear tires in the same area as a K or R bike.
• Tire did not wear on the sides. It looked like it was still new. Do K and R bikes do that?
• Past performance of even the same manufacturer's tires, does not indicate what new tires will do.
• And it can even be half the tire life you expected from the same brand tire. On a new and "improved" tire.

• A freebee...if you buy a tire with no tread crossing the center...you'll never know how close you're getting to the cords.

And you wonder why people are dropping BMW MOA???

Chris

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For heavens sake do not be so quick to take offense and let your oft stated feelings about the F bikes and their riders getting no respect boil over. Annie has two F bikes in the shop with a total of 85,000 miles on them and I believe they are fine motorcycles. What I meant by my statement is that the K and R bikes are heavier and more powerful than the F bikes and use larger tires. These factors mean the K and R bikes tend to be harder on tires. They cup the fronts readily which is not common on the F bike and they square off the rear tire more quickly. The Rodney Dangerfield imitation is not helping your cause.

So the RT and RS use the same size tires. The K1600GT uses a tire 10 cm wider. The F bikes will reach the same speed or more than the RT at @140 mph. And while the F bikes weigh less, I see no reason why thousands of miles of riding on straight roads doesn't lead to the same conclusion...that they wear in the center.

I'm not taking offense. Who is Rodney Dangerfield, by the way???

But I do notice that there is a tendency to dismiss any input from owners of the F bikes around here. Tires wear in the center, no matter what manufacturer your bike is made from, or what model it is. The question I was responding to was if wear in the center was factual or anecdotal. It's not anecdotal. If you ride on straight roads, you will wear in the center of the tire. It doesn't matter if your bike is Japanese or German.



You on the other hand, blew off any input from a F bike owner. I didn't. You did. Tell me...what tire wear do you experience on the F800 bikes you have? Is there more wear in the center? Or on the sides? Or do you trailer your bikes to the dirt roads?


And again...there's a question as to why the membership of the BMW MOA is declining??? Well guess what...look at the statistics of the forum. If you don't have a boxer, you don't have a BMW.

Nothing I wrote required that you have a boxer or a R or K bike to understand and apply to the OP's question.

Chris

Tires

Wow you westerners seem cranky!

It's the rain in Seattle...

Whoa Nellie

We own different model R's, from Airheads to Hexheads, different K designated models(Brick & Wedge), a Thumper F and a couple of KTM thumpers. Folks sure get knotted up over which model they own and I just think it's a bit much at times, they all have two wheels and can make life fun...Next. There are owners of every model active on this forum, it's up to each group to add value to the individual subset forum sections.

Our riding styles between H and myself differ on same models using same brand tires are huge.She is lighter and doesn't grip and rip as often as I do, so, her tires last longer typically. Me, if I get 8K out of a rear on my GSA, 6K on the very light KTM690 or even 8K on the /6, I am happy. Bike weight, weight bias per bike design, rider combo weight, do you get to sixth gear before you reach 45mph or do you reach the speed limit at warp speed in second gear are all causal factors and why no two riders can compare a darn thing.
All tires on AVERAGE wear in center more, some due to roads ridden, some from fast launching,some from pressure experimentation over/under bike manufactures recommendation...I too do this so chill.
I check pressures before we roll a bike out of the lineup and they are all over the map...some stay constant for weeks, others need adjusting regularly whether tubed or tubeless. Some here check pressures several times a day, some weekly, some rely on their TPM's exclusively. I ride with a guy at times who rarely checks anything
The Metzelers for years would fool even the mileage kings...I have pointed to many a rider at a gas stop showing steel cords...they all say it looked fine a few hours before. Some believe they should get 18K for the money they spend and will push a tire to the bitter end in spite of the safety of their own hides...frugal or anal...your pick.
We start long trips with fresh tires regardless of how low the mileage as I cringe at time lost and pricing out of my control.

I change a lot of tires and have seen every brand on every model of BMW at some point, no two are ever the same depending on time of year and riding style for that tires life.

daboo said:

Who is Rodney Dangerfield, by the way???

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"I'm tellin' ya, I don't get no respect, no respect at all...."

Z6 problematic?

PGlaves said:

The Z6 was particularly problematic. Wear indicators were nowhere near the center of the tire. As a tire flattened the center could be very near the cord with wear indicators still showing plenty of tread. I have personally seen a couple of tires that visually appeared perfectly fine that wound up showing a spot of cord within 100 miles.

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You say “was”... do you know if this is still the case? I rode a rented 2016 RT, 2500 km around Spain last month, bike was equipped with Metzlers and I really liked them- lots of rain and they handled well wet and dry. My 2015 RT is ready for new rubber after 10K on the original Michelin Pilot Roads and considering changing to the Metzler Z6. But of course not if this tire still exhibits problems.
Jerry Sjostrom - Chicago Region

Also considering the Conti Road Attack 3GT but I have no data other than many miles on other bikes equipped with Continental tires.

60857 said:

Also considering the Conti Road Attack 3GT but I have no data other than many miles on other bikes equipped with Continental tires.

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Hello,

I put on Conti RA3 GT on a '16 RT about 500m ago and you can follow discussion in the link below. Line holding in corners is vastly improved over Pirelli Angel GT, and so far the cost for this appears to be slower low speed steering. Dry grip seems better than PR4GT and Angle GT. It's early still but so far so good. I was told the non-GT variant has much quicker steering, but I'm not sure if that means holding lines in corners suffers as it did w/ Angle GT.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/rt-series/178169-continental-road-attack-3-a.html#post1858409

40dcoe said:

Had my 6,000 mile service done recently. Tech said I needed new tires, as rear tire is 'flat spotted.' It's not really a spot, the whole center crown is worn.

My examination showed plenty of tread left on rear (5/32 center; 7/32 side). Handling seems fine. The flat spotting has probably existed for a while.

So, is this a real problem? I see no reason not to ride a few thousand more miles on them, though the front probably won't last but another one or two thousand.

I ride mostly straight line, hence more center wear than side wear.

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It may be a little late in the post, but unless I'm mistaken, you never stated what brand and model tires are on your bike and what pressure you run them.

Hi, easy.

Factory tires, Metzler Roadtec.

Never paid much attention to air pressure.

40dcoe said:

Never paid much attention to air pressure.

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Is this a serious reply?

Lee said:

Is this a serious reply?

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If true, then very serious indeed.

Sammy Joe

Not to come across as lecturing, but...
Some of the riding experience with tires can be very subjective, when talking about "Feel", "Handling", or "Ride". Other aspects are very factual - "Wear". Some folks make the mistake of believing that motorcycle tires should wear like car tires - 40,000 to 50,000 miles on a set. They do not not wear the same, regardless of the size of the bike or the brand. Accept that "fact" and be guided accordingly.

The bike I had the most experience with (after moving from an '84 R100RT on which I used Metzlers exclusively) was my '98 R1100RT (bought new). Put about 40,000 miles on that bike before trading. Lived in Florida at the time and yes the saying of "The Tail of the Dragon - 318 curves in 11 miles " - "Florida 11 curves in 318 miles" is true. So we did a lot of flat land riding, but each year we put the bikes on the Auto Train and went North to ride back to Florida down thru the mountains of Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia so we got our "curvy riding quota" in. The R1100 came with Metzlers. Liked them OK. Next tried Dunlops, liked them a lot, nice "Feel" and decent mileage. Then tried Avons. Loved their "Feel" and handling. Nicest roll into a turn of any. Decent mileage. Last tried Michelins. Like them. Very good mileage, decent "Feel".
The rear tire always wore in the middle first. Fronts always wore on the sides first Sometimes the wear was pretty even center and sides - depended on the mix of riding we did.

The R100's we had/have use tubes in the tires and we always use natural rubber tubes for safety's sake. Natural rubber tubes do not hold air as well as butyl tubes so they need a little bit of air every time we ride (I always check before we set out). The tubeless tires hold air very well, but I check every time we set out- just to make sure. Riding with the proper air pressures for the type of riding one is doing is critical. Too much tire pressure makes the bike ride rough and guarantees high wear down the center. Too little air pressure makes the bike feel wiggly and causes the tires to overheat and wear funny.

I don't think there is anyone on the Forum who knows more about tires and tire performance than Paul Glaves. Since he has done all of the maintenance, repair and tire replacement for his lovely bride - Vonne - as she has ridden over 1,000,000 BMW miles. So take whatever he says to the bank. Try to find a balance between being too anal about tire wear and too lax.

Sam Creasman
"I don't hunt, and I don't fish, and I don't play golf. But I do like to ride.
Am lucky to have a wife who likes to ride. Life is good"

BC1100S said:

"I'm tellin' ya, I don't get no respect, no respect at all...."

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http://www.meilach.com/funquotes/rodney.html

I wont beat around the bush on this.
this is an old thread, but in all seriousness, I had experience on my HD with tires going VERY quickly. Especially on the rear.

I literally had the condition as stated previously where I had a "good" tire in morning, and literally had steel belts showing by mid-day.

If its flattening out, IMO its time to trash the tire. I have had the rear go super low on me at 65 and I DO NOT want to repeat that.

Life is a bit more important than bragging rights.

Update

Rolled the R 1200 R out into the driveway getting ready to ride two weeks ago. Putting on helmet, I noticed THREADS on rear tire. GOOD GRIEF!

Rode straight to dealership. An employee noticed steel showing (!).

All seemed bizarre to me. I look at back tire always before riding. I had never seen threads before. Possibilities: 1) thread/steel popped up during my last 100 mile ride; 2) every time I rolled bike out into driveway, I saw the good side, and not the threadbare side.

A little over 11,000 miles on original Metzlers. Had dealer change both front and rears to Michelin Road 5s. Love 'em! Add 5 mph in turns. Can't say if the Michelins are that good, or the Metzlers - severly worn Metzlers - were that bad.

So, I got away with riding flattened crowns for 5,000+ miles. They never felt unsafe. But when they went, it was SUDDEN.

1. The cords are covered with black rubber. This rubber does look slightly difference but the difference is very slight. More a difference in patina. So you do have to look close and careful, even then you may not see it. This cord rubber wears very fast. So do not count on seeing it. The cord rubber Metzler uses is harder to see. Not bad not good, just what it is.

2. Flat spots do not hurt anything. They do feel different when flat spotted and they do increase the effort required to turn in. As the tire transitions from flat to rounded, the the turn in effort changes and you have to accommodate that. Many folks do not like that feeling, so they hate flat spots. I am not bothered much, but I really really like the feel of new tires. Not enough to spend another 300 and up, but new tires are nice.

The most extreme flat spot comes from those who run car tires. There are some quite fast riders on car tires, I have ridden behind some. They do have to work harder to corner, and they are a little slower a a result. It is all a trade-off and they trade easier steering, and some cornering, for very long tire life. Google dark side motorcycle, but be prepared, you will see something just as opinionated as a oil thread.

For the record, I do not condone this, and I personally do not use car tires. on my bike.

Rod

There was no mention of which Metzeler tire was mounted, but the Z6 and Z8 tires were/are notorious for going away very quickly near the end. They look just fine and then have cord showing 50 miles later. They lack tread wear indicators near the center of the tread and have fooled many, many riders - so much so that several riders that I know simply will not buy them anymore.

ragtoplvr said:

2. Flat spots do not hurt anything. They do feel different when flat spotted and they do increase the effort required to turn in. As the tire transitions from flat to rounded, the the turn in effort changes and you have to accommodate that. Many folks do not like that feeling, so they hate flat spots. I am not bothered much, but I really really like the feel of new tires. Not enough to spend another 300 and up, but new tires are nice.

Rod

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I agree that in dry conditions flat areas on straight roads really are a non issue. However, one concern I have especially while riding with a large flat area on my rear tire is on interstate type roads that are mostly strait in heavy rain. I worry about hydroplaning risk. I have no data, but intuitively this (for me) trumps the extra mileage I might get out of a tire. I actually enjoy riding two lane twisties in the rain since I know there is a generous amount of rubber on the sides and there are also great rain grooves on the sides on almost all tires as well.