'17 GS - Edgy at Speed

rapiddog · Jan 8, 2018

I'm not worried but I thought I might get some feedback on this.
My 2017.5 GS has about 1600 miles on it. Best boxer I've owned. Not much not to like.
Small nitpick might be that it sometimes feels like it needs a 7th gear at touring speeds. Weird I know.

The only other thing is up in higher speeds, say 85+, the bike feels what I can only describe as 'bumpy'. It feels like the road is really rough, or like the wheels are out of balance.
Not a smooth high speed experience.
I normally ride without my bags on.

I do fiddle about with the riding modes and the ESA settings, so I'm pretty familiar with the bike now., Owned it since August.
came with the Metzeler Tourance Next tires which I really like.

Please...let's not talk about exceeding the speed limit...

bikerfish1100 · Jan 8, 2018

If you haven't already, you might want to play around with your pre-load settings. I ride with bags (nearly empty) nearly all the time... and keep my preload at Rider + Luggage. Add actual stuff inside the bags (like in Tour mode), and I'm up to 2 helmets...all half a step higher than what BMW seems to call for.
And, I NEVER ride in "Comfort" mode for ESA; even on the interstate, it's too soft.

Beyond that????

(2016 GS)

rapiddog · Jan 8, 2018

The 2017.5 has the newer ESA settings, no more 'helmets', but point well taken.
ESA settings are ROAD, DYNA and ENDURO, ROAD being the softest. DYNA is the sporty firmer setting.
Preload settings are MIN, AUTO, and MAX.
I normally run preload at AUTO or MAX. ESA at ROAD or DYNA depending on how aggressive I feel (turns).
I'm pretty light, 180 plus gear, no other gear on the bike except an empty tank bag, tailbag, and the Mosko racks.

I dunno, maybe it's just me.

marcopolo · Jan 8, 2018

Maybe you have a faulty tire, or maybe the wheel is indeed not balanced properly. I bought a set of Anakee III's a few months ago, and I immediately noticed a wobble/shimmy in the front end at highway speeds (balance was checked a second time, so it wasn't that). I returned the front tire, and it was replaced. Once the replacement tire was mounted, all was back to normal. I'm not saying you've got the same problem, but there are new tires that have manufacturing defects.

P.S., neither I, nor my BMW tech, could see any evident problem with the faulty tire after it had been removed, interior, or exterior.

rapiddog · Jan 8, 2018

It's possibility I guess. These are the OEM tires that came on the bike. Since it's all new to me, I don't have anything to compare too.
It would be hard to re-create the issue with a dealer since we are talking illegal speeds here.
Then again maybe not, everyone drives 80+ on these crazy SoCal freeways...

lee · Jan 8, 2018

marcopolo said:
, or maybe the wheel is indeed not balanced properly.

I've seen a lot of new BMWs with no wheel weights on the back wheel.
It would not cost much to pull the back wheel and have the balance checked. Also take a close look that both tires are seated evenly.
If you explain your problem to the shop they may check the balance on both under warranty.
I wondered about a bad tire, but there's no easy way to check this.

Do you have cast or spoke wheels?

akbeemer · Jan 8, 2018

My 17 GSA and Annie’s 17 GS came with 120 grams (4.25 ounces) of weight on the rear wheel (spokes). In each case the weight was 180 degrees from the TPMS sensor.

rapiddog · Jan 8, 2018

It's a spoked wheel bike.

I have a Marc Parnes balancer. I could get un-lazy and check them both.
I'm just so into the factory newness still. Hate to foul it with my own two hands.
Then again I don't trust 'BMW Technicians' either. It's a quandry. Maybe I'm nieve about the factory getting things like tire balance spot on...

lkchris · Jan 8, 2018

On a 1600 mile bike, I'd have the dealer's best tech take it for a test ride.

lkraus · Jan 8, 2018

akbeemer said:
My 17 GSA and Annie’s 17 GS came with 120 grams (4.25 ounces) of weight on the rear wheel (spokes). In each case the weight was 180 degrees from the TPMS sensor.

BMW says there should be a maximum of 80 g added, but they do allow an imbalance of 45g - I guess someone tried to get the imbalance to zero? Seems like a lot of weight.

Code:

36 30 - Motorcycle wheels 
 
Permissible front-wheel imbalance     max 5 g    
 
Permissible rear-wheel imbalance      max 45 g 
    
Balancing weight for rear wheel 
 Weight must be divided equally across both sides and weights attached to rim on left and right. 
   max 80 g  
   
Balancing weight for front wheel 
 Weight must be divided equally across both sides and weights attached to rim on left and right. 
   max 80 g

52184 · Jan 8, 2018

lkraus said:
BMW says there should be a maximum of 80 g added, but they do allow an imbalance of 45g - I guess someone tried to get the imbalance to zero? Seems like a lot of weight.

Code:

36 30 - Motorcycle wheels Permissible front-wheel imbalance max 5 g Permissible rear-wheel imbalance max 45 g Balancing weight for rear wheel Weight must be divided equally across both sides and weights attached to rim on left and right. max 80 g Balancing weight for front wheel Weight must be divided equally across both sides and weights attached to rim on left and right. max 80 g

Zero is a good number. 45g is over an ounce and a half, and other than an MX or trials bike I can’t imagine it going unfelt. I always aim for 0 to 5g when balancing a wheel, but that IS getting harder to accomplish, or at least uglier, on the TPMS bikes. I wish BMW provided a second threaded hole on the rims, opposite the TPMS, and a low-profile bobweight to offset the TPMS sensor. Perhaps they think that would create confusion over where to place the red snake-eyes on the sidewall. :dunno

Best,
DG

lee · Jan 8, 2018

rapiddog said:
It's a spoked wheel bike.

..

I mentioned the wheel in case someone has heard of a spoke wheel leaving the factory untrue.
I have not heard of this problem but you never know.

Omega Man · Jan 8, 2018

My guess is that is aerodynamics at work.
Try with both bags, one bag, swap one bag from side to side, one of those windshield lips and possible a different helmet.
I was recently told a story of an unhappy Ford customer with a F150- with a vibration. To shorten the story, even after Lemon Law on the first truck, it turned out being one of his accessories......The tonneau cover waffling in the wind. Doesn't say much for the mechanics at the dealership.
OM

akbeemer · Jan 8, 2018

lkraus said:
BMW says there should be a maximum of 80 g added, but they do allow an imbalance of 45g - I guess someone tried to get the imbalance to zero? Seems like a lot of weight.

Code:

36 30 - Motorcycle wheels Permissible front-wheel imbalance max 5 g Permissible rear-wheel imbalance max 45 g Balancing weight for rear wheel Weight must be divided equally across both sides and weights attached to rim on left and right. max 80 g Balancing weight for front wheel Weight must be divided equally across both sides and weights attached to rim on left and right. max 80 g

After reading this, I went and looked at at the weights on the rear tire of Annie’s new GS. My memory betrayed me and there are 60 grams on the wheel, not 120. That is a bit over two ounces. Ooops.

oldcamper · Jan 8, 2018

I have a similar issue with a low-mileage, spoked-wheel, oil-cooled R1200GS.
The front has never felt stable at higher highway speeds since new and the mirrors show a vibration that appears close to wheel rotation speed.

I have tried:
-Balance checks OK both on dealer machine and a Parnes balancer. Not much weight needed.
-Both tires replaced (Metzler Tourances).
-All Telelever bolts re-torqued to spec (3x).
-Heaviest weight Throttlemeister installed.
-All spokes “sound” OK on a clink test.
-Wheel bearings have no obvious lateral play.
-Top tube crimps appear OK (no space).

The bike has never been off pavement and has never taken a noticeable road “hit”.
I put 2K miles on a similar GS with cast wheels and did not notice any instability.

I'm beginning to think the front wire wheel itself may not be true. When the weather improves I'm going to check for radial and lateral run-out with a dial indicator and send the wheel to Woody's if it is out of spec. Not cheap, I know, but worth it if it adds to stability.

Has anyone found the spoke wheels to be out of true from the factory?
Has anyone installed a steering stabilizer on an oil-cooled GS and was it worth the $500?

.

rapiddog · Jan 9, 2018

I have the stock windshield, albeit tinted and already have an X-creen spoiler. I doubt that would do much.
Otherwise the bike is bone stock except for the Mosko racks. (This is the first BMW in 40 years I've owned that doesn't need upgrades, not even the seat

)
The forks have had the recall before delivery.
It's not so much weaving or instability that I notice, though it surely isn't as stable as a K13RS, but more about the bumpiness.
I dunno, must test more.

lee · Jan 9, 2018

rapiddog said:
but more about the bumpiness.

My money's on a bad tire or wheel.

t6pilot · Jan 9, 2018

rapiddog said:
I'm not worried but I thought I might get some feedback on this.
My 2017.5 GS has about 1600 miles on it. Best boxer I've owned. Not much not to like.
Small nitpick might be that it sometimes feels like it needs a 7th gear at touring speeds. Weird I know.

The only other thing is up in higher speeds, say 85+, the bike feels what I can only describe as 'bumpy'. It feels like the road is really rough, or like the wheels are out of balance.
Not a smooth high speed experience.
I normally ride without my bags on.

I do fiddle about with the riding modes and the ESA settings, so I'm pretty familiar with the bike now., Owned it since August.
came with the Metzeler Tourance Next tires which I really like.

Please...let's not talk about exceeding the speed limit...

Aren’t the metzeler tires a 80/20 Tire I had a similar issue will my 2011 GS only way I could eliminate the the problem was switching to a 100% street Tire, at the time it was the NEW PR3’s

rapiddog · Jan 9, 2018

t6pilot said:
Aren’t the metzeler tires a 80/20 Tire I had a similar issue will my 2011 GS only way I could eliminate the the problem was switching to a 100% street Tire, at the time it was the NEW PR3’s

"Metzeler Tourance NEXT are enduro street tires.This 90/10 tire..."

90/10 and pretty much just that. I've gone a few miles down dirt roads but that's it.
I made sure I got a bike with these in lieu of the noisy Anakees on purpose. Like them very much. Only thing they don't seem to like are painted lines.
I used PR4s on my camhead GS. Best road tire yet.
I'd like to try thre Road 5's if they ever come out in GS sizes, but I don't want to turn this into a tire thread.... :wave

rapiddog · Jan 16, 2018

Updater

I took the time to pull the front wheel and put it on the balancer. It has the 120 grams opposite the stem same as the rear wheel.
However, the Marc Parnes balancer it took adding 28g on the stem side to get the balance exact.

The wheel has no run-out side to side or top to bottom.
The tire does show by eyeballing it about 1/8" run out top to bottom, but no appreciable side to side.
I assume that is acceptable? Sure seems like that up and down would cause the instability 'bump' I describe.

Riding my 120 mile weekend loop, it showed no improvement really.

'17 GS - Edgy at Speed

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