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Harley-Davidson and the push to expand their riding academies
- Thread starter Omega Man
- Start date
anglojaxon
AATW!
BarryinIN
New member
I took the MSF basic class at an HD dealer this April. As a returning rider, I wanted something as a tune up. My choices were a Honda dealer about 30 minutes away, or the HD dealer maybe four miles away. At the Honda place, the class was $150, but $350 at HD. But it would be at least a six month wait to get into a class at Honda verses less than a month at the HD dealer.
The days offered at HD worked better for me (Thu and Fri evenings plus 8 hrs both Sat and Sun) than at the Honda dealer (only three days but daytime on weekdays- Tue/Wed/Thu 8 hrs each).
The class itself was good. The instructors knew the material, they had the skill to demonstrate everything well and with ease, and could rearrange the courses quickly. They managed to keep the experienced people interested without the newer people getting lost, which I know isn’t a easy balance to keep.
I learned.
However...
It was a Harley Davidson production and they didn’t let you forget it. They may not have beat the HD drum constantly, but they never missed a chance to pitch the brand. Any break from the MSF material was spent on one of the many dealership tours, a visit from one of the dealership staff to promote their area, and several visits each day from the dealership’s PR girl. She shadowed us a lot the first two evenings with her ever-present iPad (sign here, enter this contest, watch this), but became more scarce on the weekend due presumably because of her duties at the annual open house being held then.
They were definitely the home team. Any non-HD was referred to as a “metric bike” and considered all the same. While not directly disparaged, HD superiority (real or imagined) was made clear in their comments. My favorite example was when someone asked about riding in crosswinds. As part of the answer, we were told that was one reason Harleys were better motorcycles was because their added weight helped in crosswinds. Perhaps that’s true in this one situation, but they sure didn’t miss the chance to turn what would normally be considered a negative into a brand selling point.
And they did try to sell the brand. We rode Street 500s in the class. One student was a young lady who was tiny- maybe 5 ft, and built proportionally small. She had a Ninja 300, which was probably ideal for her, but they tried to push her to a Street 750 throughout the class. Others were taken aside to “Here, sit on this one, isn’t that great?”.
And needless to say, we were taken to the apparel section of the dealership at every opportunity. Don’t forget to use those class discounts, now!
So yes, they taught the material and taught it well. They also sold the brand and sold it well. I think one of the evenings, if not a full day, could’ve been stripped from the class if all the time spent on brand rah-rah was taken out.
But...
It’s hard to blame HD. If they can do that and get $350 instead of $150 for it, why wouldn’t they? With a couple of exceptions, my classmates ate it up. They got told what they wanted to hear. I couldn’t guess how much was spent on apparel by starry-eyed believers. I don’t think they would’ve wanted it any other way.
Is BMW missing out by not doing this? Damn right they are.
The days offered at HD worked better for me (Thu and Fri evenings plus 8 hrs both Sat and Sun) than at the Honda dealer (only three days but daytime on weekdays- Tue/Wed/Thu 8 hrs each).
The class itself was good. The instructors knew the material, they had the skill to demonstrate everything well and with ease, and could rearrange the courses quickly. They managed to keep the experienced people interested without the newer people getting lost, which I know isn’t a easy balance to keep.
I learned.
However...
It was a Harley Davidson production and they didn’t let you forget it. They may not have beat the HD drum constantly, but they never missed a chance to pitch the brand. Any break from the MSF material was spent on one of the many dealership tours, a visit from one of the dealership staff to promote their area, and several visits each day from the dealership’s PR girl. She shadowed us a lot the first two evenings with her ever-present iPad (sign here, enter this contest, watch this), but became more scarce on the weekend due presumably because of her duties at the annual open house being held then.
They were definitely the home team. Any non-HD was referred to as a “metric bike” and considered all the same. While not directly disparaged, HD superiority (real or imagined) was made clear in their comments. My favorite example was when someone asked about riding in crosswinds. As part of the answer, we were told that was one reason Harleys were better motorcycles was because their added weight helped in crosswinds. Perhaps that’s true in this one situation, but they sure didn’t miss the chance to turn what would normally be considered a negative into a brand selling point.
And they did try to sell the brand. We rode Street 500s in the class. One student was a young lady who was tiny- maybe 5 ft, and built proportionally small. She had a Ninja 300, which was probably ideal for her, but they tried to push her to a Street 750 throughout the class. Others were taken aside to “Here, sit on this one, isn’t that great?”.
And needless to say, we were taken to the apparel section of the dealership at every opportunity. Don’t forget to use those class discounts, now!
So yes, they taught the material and taught it well. They also sold the brand and sold it well. I think one of the evenings, if not a full day, could’ve been stripped from the class if all the time spent on brand rah-rah was taken out.
But...
It’s hard to blame HD. If they can do that and get $350 instead of $150 for it, why wouldn’t they? With a couple of exceptions, my classmates ate it up. They got told what they wanted to hear. I couldn’t guess how much was spent on apparel by starry-eyed believers. I don’t think they would’ve wanted it any other way.
Is BMW missing out by not doing this? Damn right they are.
beemerdood
New member
Perhaps, since MSF no longer does the classes in CA, the CMSP has put some restrictions on how much promotion dealers can do here? Or perhaps it's just that the dealer I took the basic class from, chose not to do as much marketing as you describe. In my class, there was virtually none. They used the street 500's in the class, but there was no pressure to purchase anything from the dealership, and none of the 'HD is the best' marketing that you mention.
One of the instructors in my class was a CHP officer and the other was an employee of the dealership. The CHP officer rode his personal BMW to the class.
One of the instructors in my class was a CHP officer and the other was an employee of the dealership. The CHP officer rode his personal BMW to the class.
BarryinIN
New member
It very well could’ve just been that dealer. For all I know, it could’ve just been the particular instructors we had. Or maybe it was an odd week for them.
I will never know about another site, but at this one at least, they lived up to the reputation that there are HDs and then those other motorcycles.
Again, most of the class either owned a HD or wanted one, so the more gospel of HD was preached, the more they liked it. One student who sat by me was filling out his military discount form and I told him his discount price was the same as the normal class price at the Honda dealer. He was surprised to hear that, and said he wished he knew that before since he lives closer to that site. After a few seconds thought however, he admitted he probably still would’ve come to the HD dealer simply because they were an HD dealer.
And that’s where BMW is missing out. As long as people have a brand preference, they would draw people.
There also seems to be a shortage of MSF training providers. Of the two closest sites I know, one is filled months in advanced, and the other is filled weeks ahead. The HD dealer instructors told us they could fill twice as many classes. The reason they don’t have more, they say, is a lack of instructors. There just aren’t enough getting certified due to the time commitment. The guys we had worked all week, and did this on top of it for a 60+ hour week, and were doing that several weeks straight. That can’t be maintained.
I will never know about another site, but at this one at least, they lived up to the reputation that there are HDs and then those other motorcycles.
Again, most of the class either owned a HD or wanted one, so the more gospel of HD was preached, the more they liked it. One student who sat by me was filling out his military discount form and I told him his discount price was the same as the normal class price at the Honda dealer. He was surprised to hear that, and said he wished he knew that before since he lives closer to that site. After a few seconds thought however, he admitted he probably still would’ve come to the HD dealer simply because they were an HD dealer.
And that’s where BMW is missing out. As long as people have a brand preference, they would draw people.
There also seems to be a shortage of MSF training providers. Of the two closest sites I know, one is filled months in advanced, and the other is filled weeks ahead. The HD dealer instructors told us they could fill twice as many classes. The reason they don’t have more, they say, is a lack of instructors. There just aren’t enough getting certified due to the time commitment. The guys we had worked all week, and did this on top of it for a 60+ hour week, and were doing that several weeks straight. That can’t be maintained.
crucian
New member
I was camped on the Blue Ridge Parkway in July. At around 10:00PM a Harley rode into the campground and did two loops looking for his site. I swear to god the sound, even at low RPM caused my brain to vibrate inside my cranium. I'm talking feloniously loud, assaultive loud, thoughtless loud. Good thing I'm not a man prone to violent reactions or "Loud Pipes Could Cost a Life". 
riderr1150gsadv
Well-known member
I doubt BMW wants the liability of holding/endorsing classes. We can't even buy their System Helmets in the US due to lawyer talk....
pappy35
New member
I took that HD class for the same reason (returning rider) back in December here in Memphis. They did not excessively pitch the brand in class which was nice and the instructors were very competent. As for the cost. I balked and, without hesitation or prompting from me, they instantly offered it for $99 which i accepted. I was expecting to get cold calls from them daily for a months afterwards but, again to their credit, I got a total of two.
Overall I thought it was an excellent experience.
Overall I thought it was an excellent experience.
1957mpd
Knight-Errant
+1
As a returning rider, did the same thing in New Mexico and had the same experience. Thur/Fri 'eve and all-day Sat/Sun schedule, well-maintained 500 cc HD street bikes, competent instructors, MSF syllabus (nearly the same as I took in California decades ago) - nothing I'd have changed. Other than a few emails that went straight to "junk" folder, neither HD or the dealership have attempted to contact me since the class. And, by-the-way, a BMW MOA Foundation "scholarship" paid for the class. By contrast, BMW Motorrad would not cover the cost of the class because they are very particular at the mothership re: whether you take the class before, or after, purchase of a bike. I did it in the wrong order and they told my dealer I could not apply for the reimbursement. Just gotta' wonder 'bout that German mentality sometimes....
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