Replacement Parts Sticker Shock

lkchris said:

...Costs related to the fact that BMW are low-volume, upmarket vehicles and NOT generic high volume stuff ... you can pay way more than $2800 for a single brake rotor for a Porsche--do you see your BMW bike closer to a VW than a Porsche? Think again...

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I had a seal go out between the final drive and automatic transmission on my Audi. A $5 seal probably, at least back then. The cost for repair was several thousand dollars. On the wall of the mechanic's stall was three labor rates. At the top was the Porsche rate. Below that was the Audi rate. Below that was the VW rate. You got the same mechanic, in the same stall, using the same tools. But you got to pay more if you owned a Porsche or Audi...just because. And back then, there were Audi and VW models that were identical, except for the badging. I haven't owned an Audi since then.

lkchris said:

...If you have to ask the price ... it gets boring. Pay to play.

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Gosh, "boring"? For who? I call it being frugal and smart. I cringe when people notice I own a BMW because their assumption is the bike must be an incredible bike. Well designed. Completely reliable. Far better than other bikes. I think that's a result of a great marketing department, not reality. When I mentioned to some others on forums that I was buying a BMW...I got deluged with horror stories of grossly expensive repairs. When I look on this forum, I find enough threads to back their opinions up.

I still remember the GS owner this summer who found himself stranded in Alaska when his final drive failed. I wonder if he found his wonderful experience of being stranded where no one there had BMW tools and the part wasn't available, was boring? Especially since if I remember correctly, he lived in Texas.

Telling someone to suck it up, that paying through the nose for parts and repairs that shouldn't be failing in the first place on a premium priced bike...that this should be part of the joy of ownership of the bike is just snobbery IMHO.

Chris

lkchris said:

In actuality those reasons include ...

Cost of maintaining a spare parts system ... purchasing and storing the parts, paying salaries of those that move them around and ship them, paying those that maintain the illustrated parts breakdowns, including updating them for changes, etc.

Cost of shipping them from Germany ... recall that Germany is a country that has a better economy than the USA ... when I last visited in 2006 a McDonald's Big Mac was $8

... the notion that the parts sector is meant to be a profit center just as all other aspects of the business---there is no moral imperative to provide this service for free or even at break-even

Same applies at your dealer, i.e. the parts personnel get their salaries paid from the margin and the owner pays the rent for that part of the facility from the same margin, and keeps some as profit, too.

Costs related to the fact that BMW are low-volume, upmarket vehicles and NOT generic high volume stuff ... you can pay way more than $2800 for a single brake rotor for a Porsche--do you see your BMW bike closer to a VW than a Porsche? Think again.

You can rationalize all you want regarding motorcycles as economical, saving the environment, "sustainable" (?) etc., but in reality and especially at the top end where BMW sells they are simply nothing but expensive toys, part of an expensive hobby. If you have to ask the price ... it gets boring. Pay to play.

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I think what folks were suggesting is that Yes BMW's and motorcycles in general in the US are expensive toys but there are ways to reduce that cost impact IF you are willing to do some of the work yourself and that you can find some less costly parts at times.

markmacrae said:

My 3 BMWs are 16, 14 & 12 years old, ridden a combined 150,000+ miles & never had the need to replace a shock yet.

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FWIW- your shocks are played, and should have been replaced years/miles ago. Shocks are a consumable item, as they have a limited life span. The oil inside degrades, causing a gradual, but inevitable decline in performance, no matter if seals ever go bad or not. We don't notice their decline as it is quite gradual... but by 40-50K, ALL shocks are toast, though they probably still appear to function as intended.

bikerfish1100 said:

FWIW- your shocks are played, and should have been replaced years/miles ago. Shocks are a consumable item, as they have a limited life span. The oil inside degrades, causing a gradual, but inevitable decline in performance, no matter if seals ever go bad or not. We don't notice their decline as it is quite gradual... but by 40-50K, ALL shocks are toast, though they probably still appear to function as intended.

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At 45K miles my shocks are certainly worn, but when I go around bumpy turns at speed the bike never veers off line. I probably feel the bumps more than when they were new, but long as there no degradation in handling, I'm ok with it.

Replaced parts

rhaines said:

pappy35 said:

I'm in the process of trying to decide between an FJR1300 and an RT LC. I picked a random part, the rear shock, and just about fell out of my chair. The rear ESA shock unit costs north of $2,800!!??!! I do all my own maintenance so I'm not concerned about labor costs but if this price is typical for replacement of parts subject to wear I am out. I mean, I do OK, but I'm not made of money. Almost three large for a shock is, well, a shock.

My question for the group is: What components commonly wear out in, say the first 50k or so? I get brake pads, tires, and, of course, oil. I'm referring to items like suspension and engine components, stuff that'll cost half the value of the bike 5-6 years from now to replace, that kind of stuff. I don't really care if a shock costs more than the bike as long as it's not something that typically wears out over a reasonable mileage span.

Yes I agree the price on oem BMW parts is crazy, but if you want a Beemer that's the price you pay unless you can find the part at the Beemer Boneyard ,then you'll pay about half the price of a new part. As far as parts that wear out the only experience I have is the front universal joint on the drive shaft went south at around 74,000 miles (14RT) fortunately my extended warranty covered all of the cost except for $124.68 , without the warranty I would have had to dish out $1,344.35 .
My dealer (Hermy's BMW ) said this was the first one they have ever had to repair and from what I read on various forums it is an isolated incident. The bike now has 91,345 miles on it and have had no other parts that have needed replaced due to wear.

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Both ESA struts had to be replaced on my 2016 RT at 48K miles,

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bikerfish1100 said:

FWIW- your shocks are played, and should have been replaced years/miles ago. Shocks are a consumable item, as they have a limited life span. The oil inside degrades, causing a gradual, but inevitable decline in performance, no matter if seals ever go bad or not. We don't notice their decline as it is quite gradual... but by 40-50K, ALL shocks are toast, though they probably still appear to function as intended.

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I feel pretty much the same as bmwbob51. My RT had 82k on it when I sold it and I still felt like the handling was great. I don't doubt that shocks can degrade over time and that if I put new shocks on it I'd perceive a difference, but if the decline is gradual, not noticeable, and they appear to function as intended what is the reason for replacing them? Not trying to be snarky, I've wondered about this. People voice strong opinions about shocks being worn out after 40-50k miles. What is going on with comfort or handling at that mileage that makes it worth it for folks to drop thousands of dollars on new shocks?

I have found that most get used to their bike “as it is”. When a friend rides their bike or there is a test ride on a new bike, the revelation that the bike doesn’t handle like it used to really shows up.
On a car, the easy test was to hop on the bumper, get it bouncing, and hop off. If the car stopped it’s bouncing about immediately, chances were the shocks were still serviceable.
Tougher to do on a bike.
OM

irish said:

I feel pretty much the same as bmwbob51. My RT had 82k on it when I sold it and I still felt like the handling was great. I don't doubt that shocks can degrade over time and that if I put new shocks on it I'd perceive a difference, but if the decline is gradual, not noticeable, and they appear to function as intended what is the reason for replacing them? Not trying to be snarky, I've wondered about this. People voice strong opinions about shocks being worn out after 40-50k miles. What is going on with comfort or handling at that mileage that makes it worth it for folks to drop thousands of dollars on new shocks?

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1) it's not that shocks "can" degrade over time, they "do".
2) Different riders qualify what they expect shocks to do differently. Some are.... "Is my rear tire rubbing against the fender? No? Then everything's fine", while others are "Does that ripple in the pavement throw me off my line in the corner? Does the rear end wag it's tail around corners?" Expectations vary, so will the analysis of "working fine."
3) For many riders, once they ride a top-end shock like Ohlins, Wilbers, Yacugar, Penske or others... the realization that ALL bikes are built to a price point for sales purposes becomes obvious. Suspension is a place where the majority of riders will not really notice the difference (because they've never tried superior, and only know adequate), so that's the place where manufacturers will shave the dollars.
4) Unless your shocks are really played, "comfort" will not usually be badly impacted. Handling, however, is another story entirely, and begins to suffer far earlier.

bikerfish1100 said:

1) it's not that shocks "can" degrade over time, they "do".
2) Different riders qualify what they expect shocks to do differently. Some are.... "Is my rear tire rubbing against the fender? No? Then everything's fine", while others are "Does that ripple in the pavement throw me off my line in the corner? Does the rear end wag it's tail around corners?" Expectations vary, so will the analysis or "working fine."
3) For many riders, once they ride a top-end shock like Ohlins, Wilbers, Yacugar, Penske or others... the realization that ALL bikes are built to a price point for sales purposes becomes obvious. Suspension is a place where the majority of riders will not really notice the difference (because they've never tried superior, and only know adequate), so that's the place where manufacturers will shave the dollars.
4) Unless your shocks are really played out, "comfort" will not usually be badly impacted. Handling, however, is another story entirely, and begins to suffer far earlier.

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I couldn't agree with you more. I replaced the shocks on a '12 GS I used to have with Touratech by Tractive (spent a fortune) and the difference was phenomenal. Handling was better, damping was better, pothole absorption was better, and rear wheel remained on the ground better when I rode in rough off road terrain. The shocks did set the bike up taller but that's only because they increased shock travel. If a rider who between 40-80K miles on a bike replaces his or her shock, I guarantee that they will notice a difference in how the bike handles, but only if the shocks are built up specifically for the rider and luggage and all damping and preload settings are properly set. Good shops like Ted Porter's in CA can guide you through every step of the process.

bikerfish1100 said:

1) it's not that shocks "can" degrade over time, they "do".
2) Different riders qualify what they expect shocks to do differently. Some are.... "Is my rear tire rubbing against the fender? No? Then everything's fine", while others are "Does that ripple in the pavement throw me off my line in the corner? Does the rear end wag it's tail around corners?" Expectations vary, so will the analysis of "working fine."
3) For many riders, once they ride a top-end shock like Ohlins, Wilbers, Yacugar, Penske or others... the realization that ALL bikes are built to a price point for sales purposes becomes obvious. Suspension is a place where the majority of riders will not really notice the difference (because they've never tried superior, and only know adequate), so that's the place where manufacturers will shave the dollars.
4) Unless your shocks are really played, "comfort" will not usually be badly impacted. Handling, however, is another story entirely, and begins to suffer far earlier.

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At 55K miles my bike has none of the negative handling qualities. I'm sure the ride over bumps would be more supple, but till I feel the bike's safe at speed, I'll stick with OEM on the bike. I've changed the shocks and fork internals on every other bike I've owned over the last 500,000 miles.

Great choice.

franz said:

I couldn't agree with you more. I replaced the shocks on a '12 GS I used to have with Touratech by Tractive (spent a fortune) and the difference was phenomenal. Handling was better, damping was better, pothole absorption was better, and rear wheel remained on the ground better when I rode in rough off road terrain. The shocks did set the bike up taller but that's only because they increased shock travel. If a rider who between 40-80K miles on a bike replaces his or her shock, I guarantee that they will notice a difference in how the bike handles, but only if the shocks are built up specifically for the rider and luggage and all damping and preload settings are properly set. Good shops like Ted Porter's in CA can guide you through every step of the process.

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pappy35 said:

I'm in the process of trying to decide between an FJR1300 and an RT LC. I picked a random part, the rear shock, and just about fell out of my chair. The rear ESA shock unit costs north of $2,800!!??!! I do all my own maintenance so I'm not concerned about labor costs but if this price is typical for replacement of parts subject to wear I am out. I mean, I do OK, but I'm not made of money. Almost three large for a shock is, well, a shock.

My question for the group is: What components commonly wear out in, say the first 50k or so? I get brake pads, tires, and, of course, oil. I'm referring to items like suspension and engine components, stuff that'll cost half the value of the bike 5-6 years from now to replace, that kind of stuff. I don't really care if a shock costs more than the bike as long as it's not something that typically wears out over a reasonable mileage span.

PS - the painted cover for one of the bags, a piece of painted plastic, is over $500? Yikes...

PPS - I'm quoting prices from Max BMW. If there are better sources for parts please let me know.

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My problem or I should say potential problem with my FJR is lack of Yamaha dealers anywhere nearby that have much if any product knowledge when it comes to working on an FJR. There just aren't many FJR's sold. My local Yamaha dealer has never seen an FJR and has no service experience with them at all. They freely admit this and told me that if I bring my FJR in for work they will have to work on the bike as they are a Yamaha dealer. At least they're honest. I promptly bought an FJR factory service manual. Good thing the FJR has such a sterling record for reliability. Oh, and I will also say that the FJR factory service manual is very well written and puts the FSM on my R1100RS to shame in every way including cost.

One thing to be aware of the FJR is prone to develop a deceleration steering head wobble that may be difficult to correct. Many owners correct the condition by changing out the steering head bearings from ball to tapered roller. In my case a new set of Michelin PR3 tires seems to have done the trick but we shall see. Anyway, point I'm making is I'm pretty much on my own. The nearby BMW dealer has factory certified mechanics on staff with 75 years combined experience, just sayin'. There are a couple very good forums for the FJR as in www.fjrowners.com and www.fjrforum.com with very good info on these beasts that have helped me a lot.

Should also mention my '10 FJR only has 5600 original miles all but 900 put on by me. The bike is virtually new. the steering head wobble began with the OEM tires still on the bike at around 4500 miles. No, I'm not going to part with my BMW.

jammess said:

My problem or I should say potential problem with my FJR is lack of Yamaha dealers anywhere nearby that have much if any product knowledge when it comes to working on an FJR. There just aren't many FJR's sold. My local Yamaha dealer has never seen an FJR and has no service experience with them at all. They freely admit this and told me that if I bring my FJR in for work they will have to work on the bike as they are a Yamaha dealer. At least they're honest. ...........

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Totally agree! I had the same issue when I owned my 1996 Yamaha Royal Star. The few times I had to take it in for service I have to PROVE to the tech that is was liquid cooled and not the ROAD Star that was air cooled. Then I heard "wow, we've never worked on one of these before" ! My experience with Metric dealers has just not been very good. There are a few Yamaha and Honda ONLY dealers that are pretty good. But most are disappointing. That is why I really value my BMW dealer!

OK, I'll say this........if the choice is between a new FJR1300ES or a new R1200RT I would get the RT. I just think the build quality is better on the BMW overall than the FJR. BMW has had some problems with their parts suppliers in the past but I think those issues have been resolved and the company is back on track. I also think BMW innovation and engineering is as good as it gets and that's a good thing for the Japanese as it gives them great platforms to copy from.

Right now BMW has 0% financing until the end of the year so great time to buy with free money and I'm sorely tempted. Problem is to maintain peace with the female side of things I would have to cut back to one motorcycle and I can't part with the R1100RSL, I just can't.

jammess said:

OK, I'll say this........if the choice is between a new FJR1300ES or a new R1200RT I would get the RT. I just think the build quality is better on the BMW overall than the FJR. BMW has had some problems with their parts suppliers in the past but I think those issues have been resolved and the company is back on track. I also think BMW innovation and engineering is as good as it gets and that's a good thing for the Japanese as it gives them great platforms to copy from.

Right now BMW has 0% financing until the end of the year so great time to buy with free money and I'm sorely tempted. Problem is to maintain peace with the female side of things I would have to cut back to one motorcycle and I can't part with the R1100RSL, I just can't.

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Just tell her the RSL is practically worthless on the open market. Mine is worth more in pieces than a whole bike. I'll never sell mine.

franz said:

I couldn't agree with you more. I replaced the shocks on a '12 GS I used to have with Touratech by Tractive (spent a fortune) and the difference was phenomenal. Handling was better, damping was better, pothole absorption was better, and rear wheel remained on the ground better when I rode in rough off road terrain. The shocks did set the bike up taller but that's only because they increased shock travel. If a rider who between 40-80K miles on a bike replaces his or her shock, I guarantee that they will notice a difference in how the bike handles, but only if the shocks are built up specifically for the rider and luggage and all damping and preload settings are properly set. Good shops like Ted Porter's in CA can guide you through every step of the process.

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I installed new tuned Ohlins on a 2000 R1100RT shortly after I bought it at 32k mi. Night and day difference in ride and handling. Before I sold the bike I put the original shocks back on and sold the Ohlins separately.

Then I got a used year-old 2006 R1200RT ESA with 1500 mi on it. I immediately took off the "new" crappy ESA shocks and installed new tuned Ohlins on it. Night and day difference in ride and handling. Before I sold the bike I put the 1500 mi "new" ESA shocks back on and sold the Ohlins separately.

Then I did the same thing on a new 2013 R1200RT ESA.

Now with my 2016 RT with "Dynamic ESA" the ride and handling are very good but not as sharp nor as comfortable as my previous RTs with Ohlins.

Omega Man said:

Woah there big guy. We have rules on spamming the forum.
I’m going to send you a Private Message and clean these posts up.
OM

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gsinnc said:

+1 for the extended warranty!

When I bought my '16 RTW I added 5 years to the BMW 3 years so now have 8 worry free years

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All this talk has me concerned. I wonder if it’s too late to get an extended warranty. I’ve had an ‘18 1200 RT for 6 mo since new.

gride said:

All this talk has me concerned. I wonder if it’s too late to get an extended warranty. I’ve had an ‘18 1200 RT for 6 mo since new.

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You should still be able to pay for an extended warranty you just need to do it before the factory warranty expires. Statistically you'll lose the bet, so only do it if you can't afford the rare repair that these bikes normally experience. Forum reports give us a stilted view I'm sure. If you puts on lots of miles during those additional 5y after your factory warranty expires then the odds start looking more in your favor for an extended warranty. Of course in order to break even w/ a warranty you need to at least match what you pay for the warranty plus any copays or deductibles involved for any covered claims. And you will need to verify what items are covered as some parts are considered consumable items in some plans, such as clutch or shocks. What is your estimated annual mileage over the next 7.5y do you think? I think I'll only average about 8K miles per year for the next several years which means had I bought a warranty prior to hitting 36K miles/3y I would be at around 73K miles at the end of that add'l 5y of warranty. I'm at 41K now and have had no problems requiring repair--just all of those tires, gasoline, oil, service and depreciation adds up to a total operating cost of around $0.38/mile by the time I hit 73K miles.

ncpbmw1953 said:

You should still be able to pay for an extended warranty you just need to do it before the factory warranty expires. Statistically you'll lose the bet, so only do it if you can't afford the rare repair that these bikes normally experience. Forum reports give us a stilted view I'm sure. If you puts on lots of miles during those additional 5y after your factory warranty expires then the odds start looking more in your favor for an extended warranty. Of course in order to break even w/ a warranty you need to at least match what you pay for the warranty plus any copays or deductibles involved for any covered claims. And you will need to verify what items are covered as some parts are considered consumable items in some plans, such as clutch or shocks. What is your estimated annual mileage over the next 7.5y do you think? I think I'll only average about 8K miles per year for the next several years which means had I bought a warranty prior to hitting 36K miles/3y I would be at around 73K miles at the end of that add'l 5y of warranty. I'm at 41K now and have had no problems requiring repair--just all of those tires, gasoline, oil, service and depreciation adds up to a total operating cost of around $0.38/mile by the time I hit 73K miles.

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And don't forget if you sell your bike before 8 years (3 years factory warranty plus 5 years extended warranty) you can get a rebate on the unused portion or transfer to the new owner. While you probably won't get more for the bike you are selling it does make your bike more marketable with the extended warranty. I have experienced this a few times. But like I've stated before ... an extended warranty is like buying insurance ... you may never use is but when you need it it's nice to have. The 5 year extension is really a nice deal but be sure to shop around. Some dealers really try to get rich on the extended warranties. Thankfully I have a very fair dealer in Charlotte.