Anti lock Brakes

Should I be feeling a pulsing in the break pedal when I break hard with the foot break? At times it feels like the rear wheel is sliding but maybe its ABS activated? I always use the front break and I read where the front also activates the rear but evidently I'm not doing it hard enough.
Bob

Quite noticeable.

With BMW’s linked brakes, if you brake hard with only the pedal, it’s easy to have the ABS kick in, and you’ll surely feel it. Using the front lever (only), it’s much harder to get the ABS to kick in.


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bobw said:

Should I be feeling a pulsing in the break pedal when I break hard with the foot break? At times it feels like the rear wheel is sliding but maybe its ABS activated? I always use the front break and I read where the front also activates the rear but evidently I'm not doing it hard enough.
Bob

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What is the year and model of your bike?

I have a R1200RT 2017. I've been riding Goldwings for the last 40 years.

It would not hurt you a bit to never use the foot pedal again.

BMW brakes are linked so the front lever operates both ... plus, the proportioning between front an rear is automatically adjusted.

lkchris said:

It would not hurt you a bit to never use the foot pedal again.

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That is not the best advice for slow speed maneuvering or, for example, in a parking lot. Using the front brake at slow speed can easily lead to a tip over.


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It also a good practice to do the correct braking, rear first then front for when not on a linked bike, it's about muscle memory and trained response.

Jay

strataj said:

It also a good practice to do the correct braking, rear first then front for when not on a linked bike, it's about muscle memory and trained response.

Jay

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Say what???

pkpilot said:

That is not the best advice for slow speed maneuvering or, for example, in a parking lot. Using the front brake at slow speed can easily lead to a tip over.


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I wouldn't follow that advice.

pkpilot said:

That is not the best advice for slow speed maneuvering or, for example, in a parking lot. Using the front brake at slow speed can easily lead to a tip over.


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Absolutely. Stay off the front brake when performing slow-speed maneuvers (i.e. a U-turn). Front brake use can put you down before you can even figure out what you're doing goofy. Dragging some rear brake ("trail braking") is a proven technique.

As for never using the rear brake again -

Hardly know what to say......

Don't apply front brake full force suddenly, as it may engage the ABS and lengthen stopping distance. The idea is to get on the rear brake early while the rear wheel still has full weight on it, and get on the front brake early but not full force - let the weight shift occur, which puts more weight on the front wheel, and then apply full force to the front brake.

That's what a previous poster was getting at.

AKsuited said:

Don't apply front brake full force suddenly, as it may engage the ABS and lengthen stopping distance. The idea is to get on the rear brake early while the rear wheel still has full weight on it, and get on the front brake early but not full force - let the weight shift occur, which puts more weight on the front wheel, and then apply full force to the front brake.

That's what a previous poster was getting at.

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You will not outbrake your ABS and the front brake is your only real brake.

ABS stopping

Beg to differ 36654. In our streetmasters course at the Hamburg, NY Nat'l Rally in 2016, one element of the training was to purposely engage the braking to activate the ABS to experience it, and then repeated exercises to stop as quickly as possible without engaging the ABS, and the Instructor stated that with practice, one can stop the bike quicker than when the ABS engages. It was a definite technique where you applied both brakes but focusing in the front, you applied it then progressively applied it harder. I'm not explaining it well but it worked and as we continued to practice, we all started stopping very quickly without engaging the ABS. It was an eye opener and great practice as I had never engaged the ABS before. I'm a proponent of continual training and try to take any kind of training course I can partake in every couple of years.

What rear brake

I very rarely use the rear brake. Occasionally on dirt sections to kick the rear end around, but never on the street.

I agree that a good rider might stop quicker by not letting abs do the work. But most riders I know have no idea how hard you can brake with the front brake. I put on plenty of road miles but I'm on the track racing more. On track I rarely use my rear brake. In many instances, I could try to use the rear but with no/almost no weight on it while braking, it wouldn't really matter. Your front brake is your best friend so learn how quickly you can stop your bike with it. Now I'm not saying the rear brake doesn't have use, and of course use the front brake carefully on gravel/very low traction surfaces, but your front brake is the one that will save your bacon in an emergency. I read some study about intersection accidents and remember that many accidents showed the rider simply locked the rear brake and slid into the object in front of them rather than either attempting to avoid the object or using hard braking with the front. And trail braking, the use of the front brake while leaning the bike toward the apex of a turn, is used in racing all the time and can be quite useful on the street. The linked brake on our bikes will certainly help the untrained rider in an emergency if the rider only uses the rear brake, but still no reason to be poorly trained using the front brake. And I still use my rear brake frequently when on the road, but I always rely on the front for the real work.

Did a week long motorcycle cop training course last summer. It was mostly slow maneuvering stuff but also brake and evade exercises. All the slow maneuver stuff was done with a bit of rear brake only. The instructors called it "torque braking". Using the clutch friction zone while feathering the rear brake will allow you to basically stop completely without feet on the ground. It's amazing what you can do even on a big bike like the HD Road Kings we used.
The brake and evade exercises involved both front and rear brake but was predominantly progressive front as another poster explained. It was possible to stop in shorter distance than smashing on the ABS with progressive front and rear. Another important thing to do is push in the clutch as soon as possible and quickly shift down to 1st gear so that you can quickly move to evade something that might be coming up from the rear. We practiced this one whole day so that it was second nature. The muscle memory still works a year later.

littlebriar said:

We practiced this one whole day so that it was second nature. The muscle memory still works a year later.

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Muscle memory is great, but do not expect to have it work in an unexpected panic stop unless you practice quite often and continue to practice. An unexpected panic stop is a survival maneuver. Your brain and muscles react differently than when you are training or competing.

BMW training centers do similar drills emphasizing using both brakes simultaneously to get the bike to squat. Their view is that in a panic stop ABS is the most reliable way of stopping in the shortest distance. Their demonstrations and drills support their view.


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From http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/braking/

Different way of braking?
Some people believe that you should brake differently when your motorcycle has ABS: just slam the front and rear brake, and the ABS performs the braking.
What is true is that you won't lock the wheels, but your braking distance will be much longer than needed.
Why not slam the brakes with ABS?
When you slam the rear brake, the rear wheel will lock, almost immediately. So the ABS will take over immediately as well, braking and letting go the rear brake at a high frequency.
Therefore, it takes longer before the weight of the bike has shifted to the front wheel, than when you would brake carefully.
The front brake will not perform as it should as well: you squeeze the front brake hard at a moment when the weight distribution is far from optimal. So the front wheel will lock as well, and, the same as with the rear brake, the front brake will come in and let go alternately.
All in all, you will loose many costly meters braking distance.
Different ABS systems
In most ABS systems, the ABS engages before a wheel locks. Understandably, because the ABS is always slightly later than real-time: the values of the sensor should be checked and analyzed, and the controller has to take action.
According to the tests, the ABS system of Ducati seems to be almost perfect. In other systems, it may engage (long) before a wheel locks. This means, of course, that you can't brake as hard as you could brake in theory.


No ABS, and no chance on a stoppie either
Reactions on stoppies
Most ABS systems prevent the rear wheel from lifting. There are two kinds of control:
A limit to deceleration
In this case, deceleration (the degree of braking) is simply kept below a certain value. You can never brake harder than that value, and with that value, the rear wheel will not lift.
Front brake reacts to rear wheel lock
In this case, the ABS system will react at a locked rear wheel: when you use the rear brake, and the rear wheel lifts, the wheel will lock instantly. If the ABS system detects a locked rear wheel, it will react by loosening the front brake.
That system can take you by surprise, for instance when riding a downward slope: when riding a downward slope, the rear wheel locks easily (there is almost no weight on it), and the ABS will let go of the front brake. You will notice the fact that suddenly, for a hairy moment, you don't have any brake at all.
Another situation where this can happen is on bumpy roads: the rear wheel may loose contact for a short time, and will lock when you use the rear brake.
It is difficult to get detailed information about these kinds of control.
As far as it's known, BMW uses the latter method, except for the F-models. Honda and Yamaha use the first method, and Ducati has no method at all: a Ducati with ABS can lift its rear wheel.
If you intend to perform stunts with your bike or want to ride rough roads and off road, then it's very convenient if you can turn the ABS off.
Practice!
What it all boils down to, is that you should practice, also when you your motorcycle has ABS.
When you can shutdown the ABS, also practice without ABS!


Even with ABS, it matters how you apply the brakes, and the main point is to recognize weight shift onto the front wheel and have this work in your favor.