Is the scooter holding back my learning curve?

[richardus]

Don't get me wrong, I love my C650GT. It's fun, easy to drive, super agile, reliable, powerful enough for me, great in traffic, fuel efficient, tons of cargo room and super sexy.
It is also a definite attention grabber which I also like. I like to be a bit unique, have something that most others do not. For example, I
like Ford Mustangs, but I'll never buy one because like they say, "they are like *ssholes, everyone has one."

When you have a scooter like this, people approach you to ask about it. I don't know how many times someone has walked across
the parking lot at Tim Hortons, walked right by three or four other bikes without giving them a glance only to come up and look at, and ask
about mine. It really makes me feel like I made the right choice.

However, I can't help but wonder if being spoiled on this machine, which I sometimes describe as a "snowmobile on two wheels" is holding me back
from progressing my skills as a motorcyclist. It's perhaps... "too easy" to drive? Although I have known how to drive "stick" in a car since I was a teenager, and have had training on manual transmission motorcycles (just a Honda 125 though) I have very little driving experience driving a manual bike.
I have plenty of miles under me with a 500lb bike so moving to a somewhat heavier bike shouldn't be an issue, but there's all that shifting...

I guess what concerns me about this is what happens should I wish to buy another bike one day that is super nice, but now manual shift?
For example, I can see myself one day graduating to a big nice beautiful touring bike like the 1600B but when I hop on one of those, am I taking on more
than I have skills for? Or should I purchase a smaller standard bike to keep "on the side" just to build up skills before getting a super machine?

Trade show is coming up in February and I need to know my plan before going!

Dilemmas dilemmas!
20170812_171258.jpg

[anglojaxon]

ALL THE STUFF YOU SAID.

Dilemmas dilemmas!

If your primary use is as a city commuter I don't see the problem with the scooter. If you're wanting to trade up to a bigger bike, but not aggressively seeking CC's and want to stick with BMW's, the F800GT/GS's aren't bad bikes. Of course, there is a contingent of people that go "Meh" over the Rotax twins.

A manual is going to give you more control over acceleration, get some engine braking via downshifting (clutch plates wear out quicker, brake pads are easier to change) etc. You're not losing riding skills. The same physics is there on a motorcycle and a scooter. You just aren't shifting through the gears.

Shifting becomes "automatic" after awhile on a motorcycle. You don't think about it. When you do, it's a conscience choice and goes back to "automatic" in your application and use of the gearbox. You learn to shift based on the sound rather than the tachometer and get the "feel" of your motorcycle.

Honda's NC 700 has a DCT with ABS. Seems Honda's engineering and marketing is "geared" toward making motorcycles more accessible to new riders in a sliding market. Millions of people used manuals before automatics weren't a luxury option. Automatic still cost more money to fix. People with moderate mechanical skills can switch out clutch plates in most bikes when they eventually wear out (except a clutch on the air/oil/hexhead bikes).

[Lee]

I don't see the scooter holding back your skills.
If you're already used to manual shift moving to a larger touring motorcycle should not be a problem.
I did not look up the weight of the K1600B but your scooter is about the same weight as a R1200RT LC.

[daboo]

I commuted on a Suzuki Burgman 400 for several years. Eventually, something dawned on me. Most people riding scooters are doing so because they don't have a choice. Age is taking its toll on their body and they can no longer swing a leg over the seat, and perhaps can't squeeze a clutch lever. Scooters were where they gravitated in an effort to keep riding.

I did have a choice on what I could ride, but was noticing things like my left hand was beginning to give me problems as if arthritis was setting in. And I was getting arthritis in my hips. So while I could, I bought a Honda NT700V. I thought I'd ride both bikes about equally. After a year, I found I had only filled up the scooter three times, which was about a week and a half of normal riding. When given a choice each morning, I went with the motorcycle without giving it much thought.

On the practical side of things, the scooter won hands down. More economical. Full fairing for riding in the cold and rain. Huge 62 liter storage area under the seat. Tires cost far less and lasted for about 15,000 miles. Everything said the scooter would be the ride of choice...but it didn't happen.

On the physical side of things, the left hand no longer has any problems in it. I don't have a problem with the hips anymore. It's like doing physical therapy...but a lot more fun.

I don't think there's a problem with riding a scooter. But if you have only enough room for one bike, I'd get a "real" motorcycle now and save the scooter years for when you don't have a choice.

Honda's NC700X is getting the larger 750cc engine. The Yamaha FJ-09 is getting an upgrade soon, and the BMW F800 series will get a larger engine with a number of upgrades to it as well.

Chris

[richardus]

Thanks for the feedback guys, some interesting points too. Scooters win on every level as far as practicality, but the motorcycle has more appeal when it comes to "fun factor". And it really will come down to what you want the bike for as well. I live at my workplace and live in a rural small town, so there is no actual need for practicality. The C650 has curb appeal though as I was saying, but now I wonder if the motorcycle is going to offer more fun factor. And it comes down to what you want the bike for as well. Am I riding simply for recreational pleasure? Or am I using the machine for practical purposes like commuting? The answer for me is pure fun factor, but I need some of those conveniences like storage space and weather protection too.

I have test driven the NC700DCT by honda and it handles like a dream. Also offering automatic shifting too, but it doesn't have the luxury feel of a BMW. Still, something to consider, but it defeats the purpose of getting more experience on a manual. Maybe the BMW800 is something I should be looking at?
I look at it here and don't think it will suit my needs for camping and long cruise trips. No storage, and a very small windshield, also not good on longer runs.

b4dab154-d841-40a8-a920-2be8dfb5cd2b.jpg

[PGlaves]

Any of the F650/700/800 bikes can be fitted with side cases and/or a topcase. My wife Voni has an F800S with side cases and she has ridden it on summer rideabouts (with camping gear) for months at a time. We have both ridden F650 singles to and from Alaska, and toured on them for two months in southern Africa.

[daboo]

Actually, it is quite good for camping, etc.

You'll want to purchase some panniers or side cases. Lots of options there. I wouldn't necessarily look at anything BMW offers, unless you could assure yourself of the ability to use them on the next bike. If you buy some side cases from a third-party manufacturer, there's a high initial cost, but when you sell the bike, you take the cases with you for the next bike. Another alternative is to buy a used bike that has all the necessary mods done to make it suitable for camping and touring. If nothing is available locally, do a "fly and ride" where you buy a used bike somewhere else and ride it home. Make the purchase into an adventure.



The F800GS or Honda NC700X is great for riding back roads and getting you there. If you plan to do more pavement touring and less dirt and gravel riding, the F800GT is worth considering. The first owner of mine set it up for touring and did a very good job of it. This picture was taken on the way back from an overnight camping trip on the North Cascades Highway and is at Artist Point on Mt. Baker. Everything fit inside the side cases and top box except for the tent and ground cloth.

2017-11-20 10_12_29-.jpg

Chris

[anglojaxon]

The 700/800GS's are fine motorcycles. I had a F800GT that was a good solo bike. Many GT's have traction control and ESA, although the ESA on this particular bike isn't going to be same as a 1200 series. You can find these used for fairly decent prices. They feel exceptionally light. There's a good supply of farkles for these particular bikes. The only limiting factor is your budget. F800riders.org is a good site to check out it's a little more dedicated than this site on that particular model.

[etiennelau]

+1 on what daboo said. I too had a Burgman 400 and made the switch to R1200RT recently. Better for my hands as that is where my arthritis is. Joints get sore in the winter and swell up, making them stiff. The more I ride the R1200RT, the better my skills have become, and the less the arthritis have bothered my hands.

Like most physical skills, they are perishable skills, so is riding a motorcycle.

The burgman 400 was great to just jump on and go, lighter and flickable.

I commuted on a Suzuki Burgman 400 for several years. Eventually, something dawned on me. Most people riding scooters are doing so because they don't have a choice. Age is taking its toll on their body and they can no longer swing a leg over the seat, and perhaps can't squeeze a clutch lever. Scooters were where they gravitated in an effort to keep riding.

I did have a choice on what I could ride, but was noticing things like my left hand was beginning to give me problems as if arthritis was setting in. And I was getting arthritis in my hips. So while I could, I bought a Honda NT700V. I thought I'd ride both bikes about equally. After a year, I found I had only filled up the scooter three times, which was about a week and a half of normal riding. When given a choice each morning, I went with the motorcycle without giving it much thought.

On the practical side of things, the scooter won hands down. More economical. Full fairing for riding in the cold and rain. Huge 62 liter storage area under the seat. Tires cost far less and lasted for about 15,000 miles. Everything said the scooter would be the ride of choice...but it didn't happen.

On the physical side of things, the left hand no longer has any problems in it. I don't have a problem with the hips anymore. It's like doing physical therapy...but a lot more fun.

I don't think there's a problem with riding a scooter. But if you have only enough room for one bike, I'd get a "real" motorcycle now and save the scooter years for when you don't have a choice.

Honda's NC700X is getting the larger 750cc engine. The Yamaha FJ-09 is getting an upgrade soon, and the BMW F800 series will get a larger engine with a number of upgrades to it as well.

Chris

[richardus]

Honestly I'm flip flopping on the whole issue. I love some of the newer bikes, and wouldn't mind a little clutch driving, but I really love the scooter too. The C650GT I have is a 2013 and precedes some of the newer technology that the newer models have which make them even more power efficient and have improved handling. The Scooter has also proven itself on long journeys as I did a complete loop of the Gaspe Peninsula last August on it. (an 8 day ride).

The C650GT has more than enough power and pickup for what I need to do. So I can't say it's not a "real" motorcycle.
On the Gaspe trip there were many occasions where I was passing a truck and multiple cars at one time and not even breaking a sweat.

Even if I could afford, and have room for multiple bikes, who has time to ride them all? I'm really starting to lean towards saying "stop worrying about clutch skills and just ride the bike you love". And if that's the case, the only upgrade I can see myself doing is simply trading in for a newer C650GT. The best scooter out there. And yes, I've tested them all!

[bobfately]

I commuted on a Suzuki Burgman 400 for several years. Eventually, something dawned on me. Most people riding scooters are doing so because they don't have a choice. Age is taking its toll on their body and they can no longer swing a leg over the seat, and perhaps can't squeeze a clutch lever. Scooters were where they gravitated in an effort to keep riding.

I did have a choice on what I could ride, but was noticing things like my left hand was beginning to give me problems as if arthritis was setting in. And I was getting arthritis in my hips. So while I could, I bought a Honda NT700V. I thought I'd ride both bikes about equally. After a year, I found I had only filled up the scooter three times, which was about a week and a half of normal riding. When given a choice each morning, I went with the motorcycle without giving it much thought.

On the practical side of things, the scooter won hands down. More economical. Full fairing for riding in the cold and rain. Huge 62 liter storage area under the seat. Tires cost far less and lasted for about 15,000 miles. Everything said the scooter would be the ride of choice...but it didn't happen.

On the physical side of things, the left hand no longer has any problems in it. I don't have a problem with the hips anymore. It's like doing physical therapy...but a lot more fun.

I don't think there's a problem with riding a scooter. But if you have only enough room for one bike, I'd get a "real" motorcycle now and save the scooter years for when you don't have a choice.

Honda's NC700X is getting the larger 750cc engine. The Yamaha FJ-09 is getting an upgrade soon, and the BMW F800 series will get a larger engine with a number of upgrades to it as well.

Chris

I disagree - I've got 20K miles on my 2018 C650GT (and a total of 75+K miles on previous years' models I owned) and find it extremely comfortable in its own right. I did the Ironbutt 1000 a few years back and when we were done, two of the guys on "real" motorcycles came to me and said "when you pulled up on that scooter, we thought you were screwing with us - now we want to buy one."

The ONLY downside to the CVT (well, other than maintenance expenses) is the inability to drop a gear to get some extra oomph when hitting an uphill grade but that is so minor compared to the benefits it's worth the tradeoff, at least to me. I will say it's fun to play with the Ninja-riding twerps who pull up next to me at a stoplight (fully regaled in mohawk helmet and leathers matching the lime green color of their bikes) that cannot shift quickly enough to keep up with me when the light turns green. I never ever look their way to challenge them, but you can tread their tiny minds when at the next light they really try, and fail again, and suddenly have to make a right turn at the next light.

[daboo]

...I will say it's fun to play with the Ninja-riding twerps who pull up next to me at a stoplight (fully regaled in mohawk helmet and leathers matching the lime green color of their bikes) that cannot shift quickly enough to keep up with me when the light turns green. I never ever look their way to challenge them, but you can tread their tiny minds when at the next light they really try, and fail again, and suddenly have to make a right turn at the next light.

Why are so many scooter riders like little terriers, having to prove how big and manly they are to the much bigger dog they come across?

Keep riding like that, and you'll probably kill yourself...or someone else. And quit kidding yourself. Unless they are riding a 300cc sport bike or start in neutral, they can easily out accelerate you...and they won't need to shift till they are past freeway speed limits. Take the drag racing to the track and keep it off the streets.

Chris

[Justscootin]

Where in Ontario you from

For example, I
like Ford Mustangs, but I'll never buy one because like they say, "they are like *ssholes, everyone has one."

the parking lot at Tim Hortons,

Dilemmas dilemmas!
20170812_171258.jpg

[irish]

I agree that a scooter with automatic shifting should keep your high speed skills sharp. A lot of slow speed skills (tight u-turns, parking lot maneuvers, off road skills) involved being adept at feathering the clutch and using the rear brake to control power to the rear wheel. You may not have an interest in that type of riding and you can certainly do some of those maneuvers using other techniques (like not using the rear brake on a bike with fully linked brakes and feathering the clutch only). If you are using an automatic transmission you aren’t developing and improving your clutch control. That said, you can always take classes and practice to improve those skills if/when you buy a bike with more manual controls.

[kurt_wahtera]

I have had several "scooters" my last a C600 Sport. Currently I have been riding a R1200RT. Do I miss the Sport? Absolutely! I never missed "shifting" on the Sport, and find "shifting" is more annoying on the RT. Over my life, I have "shifted" more motorcycles, cars, trucks and buses, than anyone should be allowed to "shift". People who insist that "shifting" is part of the "experience", just don't understand what riding is all about, Riding is different for most of us, and some of us aren't bullied into riding like people with narrow minds. Ride your own ride and enjoy it.