Yup. That's why I chose to not watch the Seahawks or any other NFL team any more.
Chris
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Seahawks uniforms
- Thread starter ragtoplvr
- Start date
Yup. That's why I chose to not watch the Seahawks or any other NFL team any more.
Chris
pglaves
#13338
I made that decision ten years ago. I'm glad people are catching up. By the way, paying an office manager (Commissioner) 38 million dollars - and now he wants 49.5 million dollars per year is complete insanity. Not to mention the idiotic salaries they pay players with money siphoned from working slobs, either for high priced tickets or prices paid for over-priced goods because of TV payments covered by ad costs, covered by the prices of goods and services. All so good loyal folks can celebrate with their tribe on Monday morning. Pablum for the masses.
In my case it was the year of the baseball strike. I ended watching all professional sports, this included Nascar. Life goes on and other interests took over. I do have to admit, going to Wheatland Missouri to watch the boats race, and the antique racing at Barber vintage fest was fun, not big money though. Football is doomed in any case, for injury reasons
Rod
36654
New member
Kevin,
Every person that pays their taxes, treats their neighbors with respect and contributes to their community....built this country. Every darn single one of them.......not some subset. The collective whole. Some people die in battle, most live lives of quiet dignity raising families and building communities. Each and everyone is the exact same rank of American........A citizen.
If I wish, I'll salute the flag the same way Abe Lincoln did........He didn't.
If I wish, I'll stand at attention during the national anthem the same way Teddy Roosevelt....He didn't.
I have no respect for anyone's claim to be a superior American, because of their forefathers and their children.
powwow
Member
Well said.
greenwald
New member
While I don't agree with every nuance or historical footnote of your response, I respect your opinion.
36654
New member
The National Anthem was adopted, by law, in 1931. Woodrow Wilson recognized it for his official functions in 1916. Prior to 1931, "Hail Columbia", "America the Beautiful" and "My Country Tis of Thee" were used at the discretion of the powers that be.
The Pledge of Allegiance was officially adopted in 1942. Francis Bellamy wrote it in 1892 to 1) support flag sales thru his employer's magazine and 2) promote general public education as a means of a unified populace. The phrase "Under God" was added in 1954.
Several multi-millionaires offend me. Few, I doubt, give a second thought to the children killing each other across our nation.
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
I respond to this thread with some trepidation, but here I go. I do not dispute that our nation was built by many who lived lives of hard work, respect for others and sacrifice, nor do I believe any group or class can lay claim to being a superior American or citizen. I do believe it is appropriate for our nation to recognize those who served in our armed forces and sacrificed time with their families, their health and in many cases their lives while doing so. I was fortunate to live, work and fight with some of the finest men and women in our nation during my twenty-five years in the Regular Army. I worked with three Rhodes Scholars and innumerable teenagers straight out of high school. I learned that it is impossible to predict who will exhibit extraordinary loyalty, honor, courage and selfless service by anything other than character; the sort of character that rises to the surface when one is afraid at 3 in the morning and not sure where the threat is. God help us when we run out of the sort of young men and women who are willing serve in such conditions, or when we feel it inappropriate to single them out for the recognition and respect they deserve.
As to showing respect for our national flag and anthem, I can see no relevance to how Lincoln or Roosevelt behaved. Both men behaved as the customs of their time dictated and I believe in this time they would pay the customary respect to the flag and anthem. The custom now is well established and easily understood.
The act of kneeling by the players is intended to bring attention to the injustice of police brutality towards people of color. I agree that such brutality takes place, but I do not agree that the players are doing anything to help change the problem. There is a time and place for everything and a venue that presents itself as for families is not the place. On the list of problems requiring attention in our urban minority communities police shootings and unwarranted police violence do not rise to the top of the list. Certainly inner-racial murders, illegal drugs, lack of education, lack of jobs, astronomical numbers of children born out marriage or a stable relationship, gangs and single moms raising children are all issues causing more pain and suffering and warrant more attention. There are statistics that indicate that police shootings are distributed among the races as can be predicted by who is committing the crimes. Lies, damn lies and statistics, I know, but my point is that I would be more sympathetic to the players cause if they were attacking the real issues in their communities that are killing the young.
So why are so many of us upset by what we consider the disrespect being shown by the players? As with most public issues the position of both sides gets boiled down to platitudes. One such example in this case is that the protesters are showing disrespect for veterans. The reasoning is that they are failing to show the customary respect for our national flag and anthem and by extension showing the same disrespect for the veterans who made all that the flag and anthem purport to represent possible. You may not agree with this line of reasoning, but many do, and I think it is sound. I’m a vet and on a personal level I don’t give a hoot what these knuckleheads think or do. I am, however pissed by their behavior. They have dragged the people who like to watch the games with their families and children into a political maelstrom. One can deride and belittle those who like to spectate at sports, but it is viewed by many as a way to share a common experience with friends, family and especially children and to create a bond. Call it pabulum if you so desire, but I see nothing wrong with it, and the protesting players have diminished the experience. Were these same players to protest on their own time it would seem much more credible to me. My ardor for pro football faded long ago. In my case it was due to the thuggish behavior of players both on and off the field. What is worse is that the protests are doing nothing to change anything for the better. It has become a pissing contest in which no one will make a positive change, no one will win and the country will have yet another divisive issue.
As to showing respect for our national flag and anthem, I can see no relevance to how Lincoln or Roosevelt behaved. Both men behaved as the customs of their time dictated and I believe in this time they would pay the customary respect to the flag and anthem. The custom now is well established and easily understood.
The act of kneeling by the players is intended to bring attention to the injustice of police brutality towards people of color. I agree that such brutality takes place, but I do not agree that the players are doing anything to help change the problem. There is a time and place for everything and a venue that presents itself as for families is not the place. On the list of problems requiring attention in our urban minority communities police shootings and unwarranted police violence do not rise to the top of the list. Certainly inner-racial murders, illegal drugs, lack of education, lack of jobs, astronomical numbers of children born out marriage or a stable relationship, gangs and single moms raising children are all issues causing more pain and suffering and warrant more attention. There are statistics that indicate that police shootings are distributed among the races as can be predicted by who is committing the crimes. Lies, damn lies and statistics, I know, but my point is that I would be more sympathetic to the players cause if they were attacking the real issues in their communities that are killing the young.
So why are so many of us upset by what we consider the disrespect being shown by the players? As with most public issues the position of both sides gets boiled down to platitudes. One such example in this case is that the protesters are showing disrespect for veterans. The reasoning is that they are failing to show the customary respect for our national flag and anthem and by extension showing the same disrespect for the veterans who made all that the flag and anthem purport to represent possible. You may not agree with this line of reasoning, but many do, and I think it is sound. I’m a vet and on a personal level I don’t give a hoot what these knuckleheads think or do. I am, however pissed by their behavior. They have dragged the people who like to watch the games with their families and children into a political maelstrom. One can deride and belittle those who like to spectate at sports, but it is viewed by many as a way to share a common experience with friends, family and especially children and to create a bond. Call it pabulum if you so desire, but I see nothing wrong with it, and the protesting players have diminished the experience. Were these same players to protest on their own time it would seem much more credible to me. My ardor for pro football faded long ago. In my case it was due to the thuggish behavior of players both on and off the field. What is worse is that the protests are doing nothing to change anything for the better. It has become a pissing contest in which no one will make a positive change, no one will win and the country will have yet another divisive issue.
greenwald
New member
All past and future responses to this thread pale in comparison to the succinct and inspiring words you penned, Mr. Huddy.
To merely say 'Kudos' seems woefully inadequate.
While it is in the nature of this forum for your post to be dissected and disputed, let me say that I admire the time, effort and intellectuality you infused into what you wrote.
You get it, and well represented the many of us who 'get' it as well.
Few if any will change their opinion based on how you summarized this contentious issue, but for those of us who think as you do, you certainly phrased our thoughts with honor.
Thank you.
To merely say 'Kudos' seems woefully inadequate.
While it is in the nature of this forum for your post to be dissected and disputed, let me say that I admire the time, effort and intellectuality you infused into what you wrote.
You get it, and well represented the many of us who 'get' it as well.
Few if any will change their opinion based on how you summarized this contentious issue, but for those of us who think as you do, you certainly phrased our thoughts with honor.
Thank you.
36654
New member
Perhaps, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, etc...had a faith in the fundamental principles of the Constitution to understood that displays of allegiance are easy and often exploited for parochial political purposes. Abe never said the Pledge of Allegiance or stood at attention during the National Anthem. However, he did preserve the nation and insured that we transformed ourselves from a nation of slave holders.
Gratuitous displays are easy. Building a nation is hard and requires people that want to part of nation and not some special subset.
36654
New member
All AKBEEMER's "scared old man at 3AM" has to do is dress in the flag to be saluted.
That's the problem with symbols
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greenwald
New member
Since when did symbols become non-important? After all, this is the 'Roundel' crowd - symbols are downright sacred to this bunch.
And AKBEEMER 's reference to 3 o'clock was not some "scared old man," as you put it, but rather, I suspect, a reference to "3 AM" when young men and women who stand guard in places you and I will never have to go, face real danger.
You spoke of "paying taxes, being a good neighbor and contributing to the community" as your citizenship resume.
Fair enough.
But I hold special respect for those who have bulged their resumes with service and sacrifice that extends beyond our neighborhood property lines, Elk's Lodge, church, meals-on-wheels or crossing guard duties.
I've never viewed those in uniform as a "sub set," nor would. While we all might be citizens, there are definite and definable differences by how one serves this country, and builds this nation.
A "superior" citizen, as you lamented? No. But definitely one more admirable that anything I did to carry the title, and worthy of respect, anthems, salutes, flags and whatever symbols matter to them.
36654
New member
But definitely one more admirable that anything I did to carry the title, and worthy of respect, anthems, salutes, flags and whatever symbols matter to them.
So, you would have stepped aside if one of these more admirable folks applied for your job or a promotion you wanted?
greenwald
New member
Relax. He's not baiting me.
He has strong feelings, and challenging me to defend mine.
That's civil discourse at work.
If I step out of bounds, take me out of the game Coach.
greenwald
New member
Actually, that happens on a regular basis in law enforcement. Preference often given on promotions and job assignments for military experience.
There was even a specific number of points assigned, depending on years of service.
Did it sting a little when it felt I wasn't on a level playing field? Sure.
But not enough to 'raise hell' and 'cry foul.' I remembered that all I had to do to get the 'Citizenship' title, was simply be born here.
But some had put more effort into it than I had (just as some got promoted for having achieved a higher education level than I held). We're not all clones.
One of the first things I taught my children is that the world is not fair and the playing field rarely level. Quit cryin' about it and earn what you aspire to be. So far so good - the two of them have turned out rather well, and when I look back on my career, I'm proud of how I served.
I always felt the hallmark of a good career is when you're asked "If you could do it all over again, would you?" and my answer is always YES.
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