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Thread: Motorcycle training course? Bah!

  1. #1

    Motorcycle training course? Bah!

    So there are a few posters here I've noticed that teach motorcycle riding which is a great thing, but I need to share my experience from my last "course" which was a college run "M2 Exit" training course, those who passed graduated on and got their full "M" license. The course was considered "part two" from the first introductory course which taught you all the basics. This "advanced" course was supposed to teach you the rest and have you road ready.

    Keep in mind this is in Ontario, Canada, and courses, rules, laws and such may differ from region to region, country to country.

    After taking the course which lasted three days I received my report from my driving test in order to get my full M license.
    On my report, you are demerited for every "mistake" you made on your test, and if you exceed 18 demerits, you fail.

    Here are some of the demerits I got:

    • Avoided a pothole -demerit (wobble)
    • Driving on uneven pavement (in a construction zone where you had no choice) -demerit
    • Failing to look left-right-left for every single driveway while riding through a residential section -9 demerits even though I swung my head wildly for every friggin driveway.
    • Failing to look left and right while approaching an intersection. (I looked when 50 feet or so from intersection, they said that was too late) - demerit.
    • Pulling up too close to the vehicle in front at a stop. (I was ten feet away!)


    There were others, but you get the idea. I came away from the course feeling like I had learned absolutely nothing. The demerits were ridiculous, and in my opinion, hazardous to follow. swinging your head wildly back and forth non stop while driving, Checking for traffic 200 feet before the intersection? When it's impossible to see if any traffic is coming? (unless you are out in the prairies) It's ridiculous. The instructors were terribly condescending as well. At one point she came charging up to me in front of everyone and screamed "I wanted to run you down! I hate people like you that slow down when changing lanes!" She was pretty rude to a few of the other students too. The young, cute guys she was always nice to and gave high marks, the older guys she treated like dogs. And the older guys were better drivers. Her "assistant" never said a word or contributed in any way the entire time.

    I actually submitted a letter of complaint afterwards about how they handled the course to her area manager, but received no response.

    I guess the purpose of this post is to say the government run training courses here in Ontario are terrible. I'd like to find better courses elsewhere and would happily pay for them.
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  2. #2
    Registered User WalterK75's Avatar
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    This sounds totally bizarre. I can't believe the instructor, for one, and some of the demerits are ridiculous, in fact all of them.
    Is this the way we are teaching riding in Ontario? Where was this course given?

    Total Control courses of Lee Parks are offered in Mississauga in the spring/summer. Hopefully, they might be an option for some better instruction. Check the bike show in January at the International Centre.

    Sorry to hear you had such an unhappy experience.
    Walter

    Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.
    H. L. Mencken

  3. #3
    Yes, and I need to add that I am not exaggerating at all. The course was the M2 Exit course at Georgian College in Owen Sound. The first course I thought was pretty good, but it was different instructors too. Not unhappy, just... really disappointed after paying almost 500 bucks to be abused! But I did walk away with my M license.

    I am going to that bike show in January, already got the hotel booked! I'll watch for course training, makes a good excuse for a weekend excursion and I'm always looking for more training! Thanks.

  4. #4
    Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat Omega Man's Avatar
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    I wouldn't take it personal, you received your objective of an "M". I'm generally not impressed with government run "training".
    That said, some who are actually pretty good at what they do- can't teach worth a crap
    Enjoy the "M", your on your way.
    Ride safe.
    Gary
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  5. #5
    '99 '03 '06 National Co-Rally Chair Friedle's Avatar
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    Motorcycle training course

    Sorry you had a poor experience with your training, but you shouldn't assume all training mirrors your experience. Many people can ride, but a far fewer number can teach well.

    In NY we have a mandatory training review for all Rider Coaches every year as well as ongoing visits from Quality Assurance team members throughout the year. Students are also encouraged to submit reviews of the class and the Coach directly to the NYS Motorcycle Safety program headquarters, the national MSF HQ in California, and the local site administrator. Praise and good reviews are also welcomed. The various sites I teach at also have various social media sites for students to post their experiences for all the world to see. The good ones stay, the bad Coaches don't usually stay too long.

    Friedle
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    Ride fast safely

  6. #6
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Friedle View Post
    Sorry you had a poor experience with your training, but you shouldn't assume all training mirrors your experience. Many people can ride, but a far fewer number can teach well.

    In NY we have a mandatory training review for all Rider Coaches every year as well as ongoing visits from Quality Assurance team members throughout the year. Students are also encouraged to submit reviews of the class and the Coach directly to the NYS Motorcycle Safety program headquarters, the national MSF HQ in California, and the local site administrator. Praise and good reviews are also welcomed. The various sites I teach at also have various social media sites for students to post their experiences for all the world to see. The good ones stay, the bad Coaches don't usually stay too long.

    Friedle
    MSF 27713
    Parallel 'checks and balances' here in Wisconsin as well.

    The way it should be.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF Lead RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle/High Performance/Teen/Winter/ATV Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Track

  7. #7
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    Rider training in Ontario is not run by the government. They are offered at schools and colleges and are approved by the government. I imagine the training and curriculum will vary from supplier to supplier. I do not believe there is a set course that everyone teaches. Those demerits seem silly. I wonder if those demerits are selected by the training vendor, or by the Ministry of Transport which governs licensing?

  8. #8
    The instructors were terribly condescending as well. At one point she came charging up to me in front of everyone and screamed "I wanted to run you down! I hate people like you that slow down when changing lanes!" She was pretty rude to a few of the other students too. The young, cute guys she was always nice to and gave high marks, the older guys she treated like dogs. And the older guys were better drivers. Her "assistant" never said a word or contributed in any way the entire time.

    I think "she" just needs an "attitude adjustment", and I'll bet she can't ride worth a crap either. No one can teach by being condescending, especially a bossy gal telling a group of old guys how it's done. Sorry, I know it wasn't funny and I think she needs to be fired, but I wouldn't worry too much about what she thought. You are smart enough to get training, and I think you will do just fine.
    Gail Thorne
    2017 F700GS

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    Sometimes there's something going on in their private lives that brings itself out in bad behaviour like this. Each of us struggle with things in our lives that no one else knows about.

    It doesn't excuse it. But it might make it more understandable.

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  10. #10
    Registered User marcopolo's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what the point of this post is. None but the OP was there, so how can anyone reading this judge whether what's reported is objective, or not. The OP concludes by saying government-run training courses in Ontario (a province with a population of just under fourteen million) are "terrible". I'm not sure how one can reach that conclusion based on a single experience. And, as pointed out, these courses are not government run, as the OP claims.
    Mark
    2015 R 1200 GS Adventure

  11. #11
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Don't look at Manitoba as an example of teaching folks how to ride.

    If you have never ridden before, you can do a minimal course, get your learner's permit then off to the Hog store.

    While I am an experienced rider, I did the course with my girlfriend. I though it was better than dance lessons. I was impressed by how little I really knew but very unimpressed that 99% of my class that didn't know enough to know they didn't know enough.
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  12. #12
    Thanks for the feedback, everyone

  13. #13
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardus View Post
    So there are a few posters here I've noticed that teach motorcycle riding which is a great thing, but I need to share my experience from my last "course" which was a college run "M2 Exit" training course, those who passed graduated on and got their full "M" license.
    I'll hazard a guess...Humber College?

    If yes, I'll concur that this is a government-certified but private motorcycle training school. As with every school, they're only as good as the instructors they employ.

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