national rallies

I see that the MOA and the RA now both ignore our suggestion to have rallies sometime other than the middle of summer. I for one never had a problem with school dates to determine when or where I would ride. I can remember June and September rallies that were enjoyable rather than cross country runs in July. Good grief!

I do not think there is a consensus among members as to when (or where) to hold our international rally. Your opinion is shared by many, but I have no reason to believe that it is shared by most. The debate about when and where to hold the rally has been going on for a very long time and many board members and other leaders have come and gone during that time. After all those years, all those people who served and were faced with deciding when and where to rally have not seen fit to change the “when” to a date such as you desire. Makes me think that when all aspects are considered they believe the current “when” is our best option. It’s a tough decision and your best chance of getting your way is to lobby the people who make the decision directly. Posting here has little chance of causing a change. Good luck.... early September would work for me.

MJTRUEL said:

I see that the MOA and the RA now both ignore our suggestion to have rallies sometime other than the middle of summer. I for one never had a problem with school dates to determine when or where I would ride. I can remember June and September rallies that were enjoyable rather than cross country runs in July. Good grief!

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The BMWRA national rallies used to be in September and that was perfect. The MOA is in July. It took 30 years to get MOA National Rally day passes. Be patient.

Don’t forget perhaps the main reasoning, the monetary aspect. Certainly cheaper to book these places at the least desirable time of the year, short of mid winter.

+1 For September, I can not take vacation in the summer because of work interfering with my personal life.

Some of this is a self-healing proposition. As more and more of us old folks gravitate to hotel rooms instead of camping, and more and more of the youngsters go to getaways or Disney World instead of the week long proposition to get to-attend-get from a big rally, fewer people go to the rally. So more and more convention type facilities with good air conditioning become able to handle our dwindling crowd. We can stop trying to work around and dodge the state fairs, demolition derbys, tractor pulls and goat roping contests.

We tried something like this once - and a handful of older farts than me yelled at the Board so loudly and so persistently that MOA now seems afraid to try it again. The camping at the college worked fine for me, but the drunks who wanted to stagger from the beer garden to their tents didn't find it convenient. And the camping in the mud down by the river did suck - a lot like a good riverside local rally after a monsoon. (Charleston, WV)


I have made 32 of the past 33 rallies. Voni made all 33: even the one in Florida where the weather was pleasant and the one in Texas in June. In the old days going to the rally was both a family affair and a priority. Even for families with kids. We actually had an active "Kids Events" program for a dozen or more years. Now our kids in their 40s and 50s won't come anymore. The few youth I see at the rally (other than at GEARS) are grandkids.

The moral of this tale is that times change. We need to do so too.

PGlaves said:

The moral of this tale is that times change. We need to do so too.

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+1 exactly

So does anyone know what the number of folks who attend the rally's that stay at hotels are?

jandhumphreyme said:

So does anyone know what the number of folks who attend the rally's that stay at hotels are?

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The last time I looked the site selection guidelines called for 2,000 available hotel rooms. How many people - your guess is as good as mine but my guess is about half the rally attendees, or more.

jandhumphreyme said:

So does anyone know what the number of folks who attend the rallies that stay at hotels are?

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I suspect there are figures for that but doubt those figures would actually change what needs to be considered to any significant degree. At the bottom-end it could be between 30%-50% and at the top-end perhaps between 50%-70%, really doesn't matter because both groups will be at least 30% or more and regardless of size would still need to be considered and factored into the equation/deliberation.

As I've said before, this notion that because any of us have been to Rallies in May/June or Sept/Oct and had great weather great times, etc., has little do do with the requirements of a Rally such as MOA.

A Rally the size and scope of MOA must accommodate a very diverse group (minimalist campers/hotelers/RVers/etc). They travel from all across North America. Many attendees make the journey to and/or from the Rally an event in itself and do anyting from a nice day-trip to a full continental loop, and this happens with each Rally. That means that one needs to look at an awful lot of things including long-term overall weather statistics for perhaps one-week either side of the Rally itself. This has to be done approximately 18-24 months in advance minimum.

Contrary to what has been suggested, July is not an off-season, it is in the middle of peak-season for most of North America, except the more southern areas. Why is that? Weather pure and simple.

The idea is not to satisfy everyone (impossible). The idea is to find a yearly repeatable point in time (two-week span) that is the least likely to create a weather/safety issue for attendees across an entire continent! The fact that this dates and regions must be adheard to years in advance does not allow for the cherry-picking that many would like. Smaller Rallies have greater latitude in this regard and some take advantage of that.

The MOA Rally is not the only Rally I attend during the year, they can't all be at the same time.

PS - Shouldn't this be in the Rally Forum? That's the logical place for it. No offence to the OP, just a comment for the moderators to move the thread.

AlanColes said:

A Rally the size and scope of MOA must accommodate a very diverse group (minimalist campers/hotelers/RVers/etc). They travel from all across North America. Many attendees make the journey to and/or from the Rally an event in itself and do anyting from a nice day-trip to a full continental loop, and this happens with each Rally. That means that one needs to look at an awful lot of things including long-term overall weather statistics for perhaps one-week either side of the Rally itself. This has to be done approximately 18-24 months in advance minimum.

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Agreed, except that it’s probably more like a minimum 24-36 months advance needed.

AlanColes said:

Contrary to what has been suggested, July is not an off-season, it is in the middle of peak-season for most of North America, except the more southern areas. Why is that? Weather pure and simple.

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Easy enough to say that when one is north of the 44th parallel or thereabouts. Below that, July gets increasingly uncomfortable as one heads south.

Note that “weather” has to encompass much more than temperatures, it needs to consider other factors like humidity, precipitation chance, and storm risk, to name just a few. Many of these considerations get overlooked or thrust aside due to the lock-in on the July timeframe. Des Moines or Salt Lake City in June or September would be a beautiful and comfortable place to visit. In July, not so much. A May or June date would accommodate a rally in FL or GA, where later dates bring uncomfortable heat, humidity, or storm risk.

AlanColes said:

The idea is not to satisfy everyone (impossible). The idea is to find a yearly repeatable point in time (two-week span) that is the least likely to create a weather/safety issue for attendees across an entire continent! The fact that this dates and regions must be adheard to years in advance does not allow for the cherry-picking that many would like.

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If I’m understanding you correctly, I completely disagree. The root cause of much of the discontent over site selection centers on the “repeatable time frame” lock-in of having the rally run in July each year. Expanding the available rally timeframe from June through September would open up the number of sites offering comfortable climate conditions for the rally and could also impact the factors that seem to hold sway, like the number of motel rooms in the area. Instead, we insist on a July date that virtually guarantees uncomfortable heat/humidity below the 44th, then we seem puzzled at why so many rally attendees are moteling instead of camping. This year’s SLC rally is a classic example—I live 85 miles from the rally site and routinely camp in the state all summer long, but in locations that are at altitude and/or surrounded by vegetation. After 31 years of camping in UT I certainly knew better than to expect decent camping conditions in a venue that was mostly hard-surfaced and in the middle of a metropolitan area with over a million in population, so moteling was the order of the day.

So, we are essentially encouraging moteling via the date lock-in. The unintended consequences then extend to future site selections that are required to have a minimum number of motel rooms available, and apparently in disregard of potential camping conditions at the site. Redmond in OR is an example of a site where fewer motel rooms might be needed due to the excellent camping available. Several years ago I submitted a UT site for consideration for the 2017 rally, a site with 160 acres of grass with plenty of air-conditioned vendor buildings and a grandstand. I have no idea why or how SLC ended up being chosen over the Golden Spike Center further north—could have been schedule conflicts, beer sales issues (although HOG has had events there and I’m sure they have suds on site), costs, etc.— but it could also have been a lack of the minimum number of motel rooms close to the site. If we want to have people show up, and camp, then we need to look at adjustments to accommodate that.

I submit that while BMWMOA has a 4-region site selection map there needs to be created a corresponding 4-month date map or grid that rotates independently of the regional map. That would let us have a September rally in New England or a June rally in Georgia or Texas. If the date and region align such that climate conditions might be uncomfortable then the site selection could skew toward sites within the region that offer plenty of climate-controlled interior space for lounging (like the upper beer garden at Billings) and plenty of motel rooms, and vice-versa.

And if we’re not willing to shake up the calendar, then we might as well just pick out a primo location in each region and lock in that site for whenever that region comes up in the rotation. That can’t be much more of an attendance-suppressor than gambling on a new and unproven site each year...

AlanColes said:

PS - Shouldn't this be in the Rally Forum? That's the logical place for it. No offence to the OP, just a comment for the moderators to move the thread.

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Agreed! Mod to the white phone, please?

Best,
DG

Leadership does listen, expect changes on the horizon.

Agreed! Mod to the white phone, please?

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We could and may, it is related and leads those that never come to the “Getaway” area and let’s them or reminds them to have a look around
OM