• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

California fires- Sonoma County- Mendocino, Napa County....Santa Rosa

Omega Man

Omega Man

Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat
Staff member
Well, as if there wasn't enough going on. the California wine country is taking quite a hit....and disrupting many lives.

920x920.jpg


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/How-the-fire-struck-at-Gundlach-Bundschu-one-of-12270549.php

920x920.jpg


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-fires-facts-resources-evacuations-12269518.php

I know some people in one of the mandatory evacuation zones......for them and all the evacuees, the stress of "not knowing" is horrible.

I hope they can get some help, answers and the relief they need.

It must have been quite a place- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFbI8uVUFP4

OM
 
Sixteen of my 26 years in the fire service were spent fighting wildland fires. Until a person has been up close and personal with these events, it’s hard to understand how these fires run and spread. We’ve spent many great vacations in this wine country region. My heart goes out to those who have lost so much in the matter of a few hours.
 
My longest [50+ yrs] old friend lives right in the middle of all that, just out side of Santa Rosa . So far his house has been spared , but he says [in person] the devastation is just mind boggling...He & his wife fled to her sisters, approx 12 miles S/SW. They took a ride up 101 today, as far as they were permitted to go. He said guardrail post were still burning....the guardrail sagging.

Glad for my friend , but for sure saddened for those who were not so fortunate.

Hope my friends luck continues.


He said there are rumors that some of the fires were arson ! But it is believed that the start was due to power lines brought down by the wind.
 
Shadows of Fort Mac, taste of B.C. Caribou, touch of hinterland Cdn Shield and the cost is the same.

Tough, really tough.
 
71243 said:
He said there are rumors that some of the fires were arson ! But it is believed that the start was due to power lines brought down by the wind.
Click to expand...

First, hope your friend and his family are okay.

The power line theory seems to be a good one to this retired fire investigator. Arson could be suspected, but given the geographic spacing, that seems unlikely since the fires started around the same time. Traveled in that region a lot in the last 40 years, getting around takes some time in that terrain. We caught one arsonist at Lake Tahoe that started 26 fires one afternoon, but that was within a two and half mile long section of highway 50. That took him about an hour as he jogged along the shoulder...
 
SeabeckS said:
First, hope your friend and his family are okay.

The power line theory seems to be a good one to this retired fire investigator. Arson could be suspected, but given the geographic spacing, that seems unlikely since the fires started around the same time. Traveled in that region a lot in the last 40 years, getting around takes some time in that terrain. We caught one arsonist at Lake Tahoe that started 26 fires one afternoon, but that was within a two and half mile long section of highway 50. That took him about an hour as he jogged along the shoulder...
Click to expand...


Could the arson suspect be......Perhaps a move to make sure their house burns down in the "wild-fire" .....Insurance scams?
 
The number of people confirmed killed is awful, the number who remain missing is even more horrendous. The loss of structures and property is secondary to that.
 
mcmxcivrs said:
The number of people confirmed killed is awful, the number who remain missing is even more horrendous. The loss of structures and property is secondary to that.
Click to expand...


Agreed!.....

Heard on the news that "officials" say that this is the worst natural disaster ever in California...Considering all that the state has endured...that's quite a statement.
 
71243 said:
Could the arson suspect be......Perhaps a move to make sure their house burns down in the "wild-fire" .....Insurance scams?
Click to expand...

I sincerely doubt that this was the work of an arsonist, nearly simultaneous ignition points spread over a wide area during a period of intense winds. Is it possible that an arsonist took advantage of the opportunity? Yeah, I suppose so. Fire insurance rarely comes close to paying for 100% of true cost of a residence, so doubt there’s any scam involved. Just a lot of death and destruction...and grief.
 
SeabeckS said:
I sincerely doubt that this was the work of an arsonist, nearly simultaneous ignition points spread over a wide area during a period of intense winds. Is it possible that an arsonist took advantage of the opportunity? Yeah, I suppose so. Fire insurance rarely comes close to paying for 100% of true cost of a residence, so doubt there’s any scam involved. Just a lot of death and destruction...and grief.
Click to expand...



Yeah OK, maybe I said it incorrectly . But they indicated , wind first,...then [possible] arson second.

Now just on the news one scene of a destroyed home, is being treated as a crime scene ?? This is starting to sound as ambiguous as the Vegas shooting.

BTW....nice to have your professional opinion on this.
 
71243 said:
Yeah OK, maybe I said it incorrectly . But they indicated , wind first,...then [possible] arson second.

Now just on the news one scene of a destroyed home, is being treated as a crime scene ?? This is starting to sound as ambiguous as the Vegas shooting.

BTW....nice to have your professional opinion on this.
Click to expand...

Not sure where your getting your information from? Hate to say it, the news does not always get it right. Because people died in a fire, the deaths are considered a crime scene until proven otherwise. So, all of the fatalities of this fire will be processed as a crime scene. The burn covers a huge area. Results of the investigation will take a lot of time......

John
 
Rka?

Has anyone heard from Richard and Kathy at RKA ? They make bags [tank, tail & liners] for a lot of BMW people. They live in this area.:scratch:dunno
 
71243 said:
Yeah OK, maybe I said it incorrectly . But they indicated , wind first,...then [possible] arson second.

Now just on the news one scene of a destroyed home, is being treated as a crime scene ?? This is starting to sound as ambiguous as the Vegas shooting.

BTW....nice to have your professional opinion on this.
Click to expand...

As a former investigator, I’d say you just follow the evidence, so I wouldn’t rule out some instances of arson being involved somewhere in here. And anytime they find a deceased person in a fire situation, that will lead to a pretty close investigation by fire and police officials. I worked and attended some training with CDF personnel a long time ago and have complete faith in them doing their jobs properly.
 
EUGENE said:
Has anyone heard from Richard and Kathy at RKA ? They make bags [tank, tail & liners] for a lot of BMW people. They live in this area.:scratch:dunno
Click to expand...

Richard sent out an email yesterday. He and Kathy are OK, as well as store in Santa Rosa. Here's a screen-shot of most of the email. It also included a video of fire: Screen Shot 2017-10-13 at 9.06.26 AM.jpg
 
EvryDayRide said:
Not sure where your getting your information from? Hate to say it, the news does not always get it right. Because people died in a fire, the deaths are considered a crime scene until proven otherwise. So, all of the fatalities of this fire will be processed as a crime scene. The burn covers a huge area. Results of the investigation will take a lot of time......

John
Click to expand...


A natural disaster is considered a crime?....Doubt that. If suspected arson yes, but not a forest fire.
 
Any unattended death, meaning death with no professional personnel such as LEO or medical personnel present, is treated as a potential crime scene until the coroner or law enforcement or fire investigators have established cause and circumstance of death. A recent unattended and accidental death in my extended family bore this out. Once the coroner established cause of death and that the cause and circumstance matched information provided by family, the potential criminal possibility was dismissed and autopsy ruled unnecessary. I expect that it will take quite some time for the necessary personnel to process the site and remains and until those deaths are ruled accidental or other non-foul-play circumstance, the sites will continue to be flagged as potential “crime scenes” and nothing more need be read into them. And, the internet conjecture really isn’t helping.

My heart goes out to those who have lost friends or family in this terrible tragedy.

DG
 
This is from a NYTimes story today (10/13) regarding the difficulties faced by law enforcement folks as they deal with unattended deaths from the fires:

“We have found bodies that were nothing more than ash and bones,” said Robert Giordano, the Sonoma County sheriff. In some cases, he said, the only way to identify the victims was by the serial numbers stamped on artificial joints and other medical devices that were in their bodies.

Because the fires have sent so many residents scrambling for safety, separating them from relatives, the authorities have received reports of 900 missing people and have deployed 30 detectives to track them down. Officials said they had confirmed the locations and safety of 437 people and were still looking for the other 463.

If they cannot find them by phone or online, they send search and rescue teams with cadaver dogs to the homes — if the homes are accessible, which in many cases, they still are not.

“It’s going to be a slow process,” Sheriff Giordano said.
 
71243 said:
A natural disaster is considered a crime?....Doubt that. If suspected arson yes, but not a forest fire.
Click to expand...

You miss understood. Some of your wording and/or terminology does not line up with what I was conveying. A Forest Fire started by lightning would be a natural disaster. Correct, any fatalities would not be considered a crime. They have completely ruled out lightning for these fires around the Santa Rosa area. An arsonist, that starts a fire anywhere, in a Forest or in any other structure, is responsible for any injuries or deaths that occur because of his/her actions. They can be charged with the crime of murder. What I am guessing, is that most of these fires will be caused by power line issues due to the extreme high winds? Or, some other mechanical man caused issue?

I have watched the news and have talked to some of the guys I use to work with that are on the Fire Lines. The large scale devastation of entire neighborhoods is heart breaking. This fire could very well top the Oakland Hills fire due to the higher loss of life and property. A lot of folks with nothing but the clothes on their backs.........

John
 
Failure to adequately maintain a power system, which failure allowed the ignition of wild fires, might in and of itself be a crime. Negligent homicide - that is negligence resulting in death. Time will tell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

mika
Morning Reads: 30 June 2007
Replies
2
Views
4K
PAULBACH
PAULBACH
burnszilla
Santa Rosa BMW moving to Windsor in April
Replies
1
Views
2K
99007
99007
Back
Top